Talk:Norm Macdonald

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Please use this capitalization: Macdonald (lowercase "d")

The capitalization of Norm Macdonald's surname has been inconsistently reported in publications such as TVGuide, but books discussing Norm such as Shales (2003) and Crawford (2000) and his current business interests, the Game Show Network [1], Comedy Central [2] Sports Show with Norm Macdonald [3] and his comedy CD [4] all consistently use Macdonald (lowercase "d"). See the discussion and archives.

Filmography[edit]

Added a filmography. Only includes movies at the moment, but maybe someone wants to expand on it to include his numerous television appearences. --Relax Relapse 23:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Bilingual[edit]

- I'm pretty sure that Norm isnt bilingual - he grew up in Quebec, and says several times that he didnt learn French, and instead learned Latin. In addition, lots of English people growing up in Quebec didnt learn French, due to cultural conflict, back in the 50s/60s/70s.

- He said in this interview (http://www.comedycouch.com/interviews/nmacdonald.htm) that he didn't learn to speak French, and took Latin in high school. I doubt he's fluent in Latin, and therefore not bilingual.

He said on the Tonight show that he isn't Scottish. His family - originally Polish - changed their name.

- That was for the purposes of a joke and goes against what he's said many times, which is that he is Scottish. At least his father is. I have seen people say that his mother is Jewish because her name was Cohen, but it's also an Irish name and he mentioned in passing on a podcast recently (I can't remember what podcast) that she is Irish. Mole Playing Rough (talk) 07:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Not only does it not seem like he's bilingual, but referring to him as a "bilingual Cananadian actor and comedian" puts too much emphasis on the "bilingual" thing for no reason. Deleted, it can be re-added if anyone has proof he's bilingual. --68.149.181.145 04:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity Millionaire[edit]

The article should include mention of his appearance on Celebrity Who Wants to be a Millionaire. I don't know the date of his appearance. He was the last one to make it to the stage because of his (purposely?) poor performance on the fastest finger questions. However, once on stage he did very well. He should have been the only celebrity to actually win the million dollars for his charity. He verbally stated the correct answer to the million dollar question, but host Regis Philbin talked him out of submitting it as his "final answer." Norm looked visibly upset after it was revealed that his answer was in fact correct.

I remember that. "Okay, fine. Final Answer." "But you would've been right!" DeathWeed 07:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Newsradio[edit]

I'm not positive he was in Complaint Box. Imdb lists it as him, but it was only a voice, and he wasn't credited in the episode. Additionally, the role of Jimmy's Lawyer was taken over by Drake Sather (a newsradio producer/writer), who sounded kinda like Norm. Unless someone knows of another source (not drawing from imdb) that says it was Norm, I'd suggest removing it.

Political humor[edit]

Originally, this was ==Politics== and someone deleted the section. I put it back, renamed it, and noted the paradox of his claiming to be apolitical, and still making political jokes. That Clinton joke got Norm a lot of free publicity. I added (see Vince Foster) to put the Clinton joke in context. --Lexein 07:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

political humor bookmark[edit]

www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a1417874830.htm and Google Newsgroup archive - both refer to Norm on the 11/16/2000 "The View" joking "Clinton... he killed a guy..." . Still seeking video or official transcript of that appearance. At least the date is right. Notable because Norm joked about Clinton in this manner for many years, including SNL's Weekend Update(1996). This doesn't go in the main article yet. --Lexein 06:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

FFS it was just a joke! He was just being ridic. He wanted to be annoying. He's a comedy genius and wants nothing more than to be funny. I heard him telling this story on a radio program ten years later and it was just really funny. He couldn't care less about politics. Obv Clinton didn't murder a guy. That's the joke. 91.155.237.252 (talk) 05:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit: And oh now I see the main article. Like srsly Norm is just telling the truth. He has nothing against Clinton. Just everything against being unfunny. 91.155.237.252 (talk) 05:31, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Early life[edit]

Norm does not have a sister named Leslie. He has a brother whose name is Leslie. For some strange reason, I correct this and it shows up again.71.247.229.53 02:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.247.229.53 (talk) 02:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC).


Norm is a former student of Algonquin College in Ottawa where he studied Television Broadcasting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.115.252.239 (talk) 01:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Let's start spelling his name right[edit]

It's Macdonald, not MacDonald. Check his web site: http://www.normnews.com As well, CBC.ca says his brother Neil's name is spelled Macdonald. Alaric the Goth 00:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

normnews.com (and norm-macdonald.net) is a fansite, not his website. Also, IMDB says MacDonald with Macdonald as an "alternate name." Who knows. Davewho2 02:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
The logo for The Fake News has his name spelled with a lowercase D. Every instance on the page, actually. I'm sure it's something he would want to be presented correctly, his own name and all, being spelled wrong for all these years. I think that's enough proof to start spelling his name correctly on here. 24.224.235.151 (talk) 03:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention, the Dirty Work movie poster and the product description of his comedy album, Ridiculous (but not the actual album itself, which would have been helpful). 24.224.235.151 (talk) 03:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Do we have any further insight into the spelling issue? Right now, the spelling within the article is different from the title of the page. We have to be able to do better than this. If we're not sure which is right, we can at least be consistent. Croctotheface (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I fixed it to represent his proper name. I went to all the trouble of determining the proper spelling of his name (see former ip 24.224.etc.etc), and I am 97% certain the D is lowercase. I made sure to update as many pages referencing him as I could, and even signed in using an old account to transfer the page to its proper place (back then). So as far as I'm concerned, it's correct. And now I gotta go see if any other pages were wronged. 208.103.232.115 (talk) 09:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

He spells his name "MacDonald", according to his MySpace page. Now, who you gonna' trust — a barely literate C-student journalism major, a fan site run by high school drop-outs, or the man himself? Besides, no self-respecting Scotsman or person of MacDonald descent would spell his family name "Macdonald". —QuicksilverT @ 23:32, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

"Design by Gigglechick.com" tells me that perhaps Norm didn't make his own MySpace page, which leads me to believe that maybe he didn't type in his own information. Maybe he did, though. Seeing as how his Facebook page (linked to from his MySpace page, and perhaps a much better indicator of how he spells his name) also has an uppercase D, I'm more inclined to believe it is so. But maybe I'd rather wait until we hear concrete proof of how he spells it, "straight from the horse's mouth" as it were. (That's right, Norm, I'm calling you a horse.) Perhaps he doesn't care one way or the other, and he finds this name-spelling war ridiculous and hilarious. As for the "no self-respecting Scotsman" remark, I must bring up the first Prime Minister of Canada, Sir John A. Macdonald, born in Glasgow. Or maybe even Kelly Macdonald, that actress with the red hair that identifies herself as Scottish. -76.11.9.9 (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Or any of the people listed on the Macdonald page. (Worth a read, no?) -76.11.9.9 (talk) 13:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Norm's Twitter, YouTube, website, and two separate Facebook pages indicate that his name is spelled with a capital D, but at the same time paint Norm to be very technologically illiterate, getting others to make his websites and such. I think at this point, that old nag doesn't care one whit about the spelling of his name. -76.11.9.9 (talk) 14:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Norm's Twitter and Facebook pages now reflect spelling with lowercase "d". Also, on Season 7 of "High Stakes Poker" the "d" is lowercase.

It seems his new employer, Comedy Central, and Norm himself have settled this dispute about how Norm spells his own name. The name of his new show on Comedy Central is called "Sports Show with Norm Macdonald" -lowercase 'd'. All the press releases, all the mention of the show on Comedy Central's webpages for the show spell it with lowercase 'd' also. So I am going to go to correct MacDonald on title page to Macdonald. April 30, 2011 RedEyedCajun (talk) 06:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

After reading further down this page, I noticed there was more debate. Also, I found out it is not so easy to change that title (not having done a 'move' before) and I don't want to really mess things up by making a mistake, especially since there is another page titled "Norm Macdonald" that redirects to "Norm MacDonald" and that page would need to be involved in this title change. But it should be clear to everyone now that Norm does spell his name with a lowercase 'd' ...Macdonald. It should be changed now by someone who knows how to do it. RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:32, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

French-Canadian upbringing?[edit]

this line . . . "(which may be accentual, due to his French-Canadian upbringing)" makes no sense to me. I was born and raised in Québec, but as an English-Quebecer. Norm MacDonald did not have a "French-Canadian upbringing." I'm going to remove that line, unless somebody has proof.--RobNS 04:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Genetics?[edit]

i don't think middle schools teach whole courses on genetics per se. it was probably a biology course.Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Assessment[edit]

I have assessed this as Start Class, as it contains more detail and information than would be expected of a Stub, but requires more cleanup, inline citations and referencing. I have assessed this as Mid importance, as I do feel that the subject of this article is well-known outside of Canada. Cheers, CP 17:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Genetics Teacher?[edit]

I don't think high schools hire genetics teachers, maybe science teachers.Landroo (talk) 12:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


GTA IV Character?[edit]

I don't remember anyone by the name of Steve in the game. There's no one by the name of Steve in the credits in the manual, and Norm MacDonald is not listed either. If someone could clear this up, I'd appreciate it. IncoherentMoron (talk) 04:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

AGE[edit]

His myspace page says he's 68. I saw his show in Toronto tonight and he said he was 68 as well.

http://www.myspace.com/normmacdonald

Which means either he's lying or he couldn't have attended grade school in the 70's or be 43 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.228.44 (talk) 03:19, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

fact 1, hes a comedian. fact 2, myspace pages often have obviously fake ages, etc.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:52, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Asexuality[edit]

im hesitant to remove it, but i changed the wording. i dont think a link to a radio interview recording is valid. and, of course, he may be joking, as he is a comedian...Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:52, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


He's said similar things in Maxim. "I don't care for sex. I find it an embarrassing, dull exercise. I prefer sports, where you can win." He's never specifically identified as "asexual" as far as I've seen. I believe it when he's said he's been celibate for a decade, but I'm not so quick to take that to mean he considers himself an asexual man. 76.26.29.169 (talk) 20:02, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

He has also said multiple times that he enjoys women. Do not take anything Norm says in one of his appearances at face value!!! Seriously. He is a comedian who thrives on saying stuff that that is untrue for the sake of a joke. There are way to many mentions here of the stuff that Norm has falsely stated in appearances. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.184.233.201 (talk) 01:38, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 1[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request. Since this nomination might be used as the poster child for application of our primary topic policy, i.e., a 100 to 1 disparity for the proposed primary's use over all other uses combined, which means, if not moved, 99% of those looking for articles with the common title would find themselves somewhere other than the page they sought, the opposition is less than convincing.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:38, 15 September 2010 (UTC)


Norm Macdonald (comedian)Norm MacdonaldNorm Macdonald is currently a dab page listing this comedian; Norm Macdonald (politician); and Norm McDonald (Australian footballer). The comedian seems to be by far the primary topic for the name (meaning that users are much more likely to be looking for this man than the other two), and the footballer isn't even named Norm Macdonald. Propaniac (talk) 13:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

According to this site's statistics, in June 2010, the comedian's article received about 22,000 pageviews; the politician and footballer articles each received about 200. The comedian overwhelmingly dominates Google web and news searches for the name "Norm Macdonald" (and also, incidentally, for the name "Norm McDonald"). Propaniac (talk) 13:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment. No firm opinion on the proposed move, but I think that the different spelling is sufficient to drop the disambiguator from the footballer. PC78 (talk) 14:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
    I was initially going to suggest the same thing, but I couldn't decide whether to include it as part of the same move discussion, and I finally decided to wait until this discussion was complete before possibly proposing (in a separate discussion) a move of the footballer article. I would request that others avoid discussing the footballer article here (unless it's relevant to choosing a title for the comedian article, of course), simply to keep this discussion streamlined. Propaniac (talk) 16:51, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose because this is a perfectly good disambiguation page among several obscure people, none of them the clear primary topic. The d vs D is too hard to keep straight, so keep MacDonald and Macdonald together. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 21:34, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Literally 100 times more people view the Norm Macdonald article than view either of the other two. So I find your characterization of all three as equally obscure to be extremely dubious. Propaniac (talk) 13:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I am mindful of Wikipedia:Recentism. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 15:40, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if you're just throwing out random arguments, but this one makes little more sense than the first. The politician is as current as the comedian, so I can't see how recentism applies, and the footballer doesn't appear to have ever enjoyed the kind of widespread name recognition that would rival the comedian, who has been a well-known figure in popular entertainment for over fifteen years. Avoiding recentism doesn't mean pretending that less-recent topics are automatically as significant or more significant than current topics. Propaniac (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I am considering how far along in their careers the entertainer and politician are; the politician's career is on the rise, and so are the page views on the article about him, even though the article is a stub. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 18:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
The criteria for determining a primary topic is whether users are much more likely to be seeking that topic than any other possibility. Right now, as I said, roughly 100x as many people are reading about the comedian vs. the politician. If that changes, of course the articles' titles could be reexamined, but I see absolutely no reason to think the two articles are likely to see similar levels of interest anytime soon, especially as the politician was elected five years ago. (And if interest in the politician's article did skyrocket for some reason, adjusting article titles based on that would likely be a very good example of recentism.) Propaniac (talk) 18:59, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I am thinking also of Wikipedia:Crystal ball. No matter what we decide to do now, there is a large element of guessing involved because two entries concern living people. For that reason, I think the bar should be set high for designating either one of them a primary topic. 69.3.72.9 (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay, let's set the bar high. How about if one article gets 75 times as many hits as the second-most popular, it's the primary topic? Propaniac (talk) 13:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong support; I came to the talk page to propose this move. The comedian is quite obviously the primary topic; stats shows that the great majority of disambiguation page views were intending to visit the comedian's page. Let's save the time of ~9000 dab viewers, of whom at most 463 (assuming every page view is from the disambiguation, which is obviously unreasonable) are looking for the politician or footballer. The IP mentions that "the politician's career is on the rise", though I don't see any of that mentionned in the politician's stub; it sounds like the IP has personal views influencing their decision. Even so, if the politician's career does rise substantially, we can always switch it back. -M.Nelson (talk) 04:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment the dab page should move to Norm McDonald since two entries on it use that spelling, or Norm MacDonald, since it is usually capitalized in the spelling of MacDonald. 70.29.210.72 (talk) 02:17, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Support the proposal exactly as is per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Two of the entries on the dab page use the form "Macdonald" and the parentheticals avoid confusion so make the dab page "Norm Macdonald (disambiguation)" as proposed and keep the parenthetical with the footballer. — AjaxSmack 03:00, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move afternote: proper capitalization of title?[edit]

After carrying out the move I noticed that the article spells the name with a capital D—that is, MacDonald, as opposed to Macdonald, while the move request I carried out was from a lowercase spelling to lowercase spelling. Some above talked about the capitalization issue in relation to other titles, but it seems no one, including me, picked up on that there is a question about this regarding the comedian . Searching Google books for <"norm macdonald" "saturday night live">, while MacDonald is more common, there are many with the lowercase spelling as well. Can we get some clarity on this secondary issue? I don't think we need a formal move request for this.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:07, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Ugh, you're right. I totally didn't notice that and just assumed the title used the correct spelling, but I'm pretty sure now that MacDonald is right -- for one thing, it's what's used on the official MySpace page. I agree the article should be moved to Norm MacDonald and that a formal move request should be unnecessary. Propaniac (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
It's done.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps Norm Macdonald (disambiguation) should undergo a similar move to be consistent with the primary topic spelling and because only one of the four entries is spelt "Macdonald". — AjaxSmack 17:16, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I concur. Propaniac (talk) 17:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Seems logical and I'll do it now.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)


As of April 2011, Norm and Comedy Central have named his new show "Sports Show with Norm Macdonald" -lowercase 'd'. Also, on the show's webpage at Comedy Central, you can click on a link that is a bio page for "Norm Macdonald". I don't see how this debate can go any further. Someone needs to change the title of this article to "Norm Macdonald" ASAP! After all, this is a living person who deserves to have his name spelled the way he obviously wants it spelled. RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:29, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I do see how the debate can "go further" because how his name his properly capitalized is not at all clear to me from what you've said. I am not saying you are wrong, but you haven't sewn it up at all. His name is capitalized all over the map in both official and unofficial sources. Visiting the Comedy Central page, I don't see where his name is given with the lowercase d in the title as you've indicated; I only see it spelled in all caps. The bio page does use the all lowercase but CC's internal page has no more weight than many other places where it is spelled with the upper case D from sources with an apparent imprimatur of a major organization involved with him. Regarding the show's name, the New York Times, for example, present the shows title with the upper case D (1, 2). Turning away from the sports show in particular, it appears Norm co-authored a book where his name was spelled with the upper case D: 3. The SNL archives has his name with the upper case D: 4, and as noted in the discussion above, most convincingly as to the way Norm Macd/Donald himself actually spells it (which is a concern you've focused on), his Facebook page uses the uppercase D: 5 and he signs posts there in that manner. He also has a link to his myspace page where his name is also given with the uppercase D. This is the only material I've seen where one might say that this is probably Norm's own hand at work in presenting his own name. But there's more. His own post at the Facebook page from September 2010 says "getting new site up at normmacdonald.com" and if you visit that, you see again his apparent own spelling of his own name with an uppercase D.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I prefer the more familiar "MacDonald". However, Comedy Central is 100% consistent (its everywhere if you look just a little bit harder) throughout all its web pages (and on window top title-bars) and press releases on spelling it Macdonald and spelling it "Sports Show with Norm Macdonald". Since Norm is a producer and host of "Sports Show with Norm Macdonald", I thought that was how he was currently (in 2011) spelling his name. I assumed he would have corrected all that if it was wrong, wouldn't you think? My computer won't open his Twitter, Myspace and Facebook accounts, so I'll take your word about Myspace and Facebook unless someone says otherwise. Now, is he just having fun with changing the spelling of his name to the way he is currently spelling it on this particular new show, but not on his myspace or Facebook, who knows? It may be an insider joke or something...I don't know. As far as the print press, I dismiss them outright because journalists are notorious for assuming name spellings...remember the old-saw about the press, "Just spell my name right." I guess until someone digs up his birth certificate in Canada (here we go again! ugh!), you are right...this won't be settled after all. I stand corrected...this nonsense goes on, and on, and....! By the way, I see this was being debated here since at least 2007. Just curious, how and when did this first get started outside Wiki? Did he do some work before 2007 with credit of MacDonald and the internet blog debate started there? Has Norm ever commented about this on twitter or facebook? Has anyone ever asked Norm? It's past time someone did.RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Just for laughs and giggles, here's a monkey-wrench in the works: When I did a spell check on MacDonald, it came up as a misspelled word. The suggested spellings in this order were: Macdonald, Mac Donald (with a space between c & D), McDonald, Madonna,... There was no listing for MacDonald. RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I was not aware of the previous discussion higher on this page. I'll start a debate below for community input. The move discussion above was not focused on the capitalization issue at all, thus the "afternote". Hopefully we can get some clarity on the issue, at least until such time as Mr. Macd/Donald drops by, and it would also be nice to settle the manner his name should be presented in the article.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:40, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Difficult discussion to follow. I didn't see any objections to the move. If this was not consensus, please leave a note on my talk page. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)



Norm MacDonaldNorm Macdonald – Per the discussion directly above here, and a previous discussion higher on this page, how shall we title this article: Macdonald or MacDonald? It would also be good to get some clarity on the name to be used throughout the article (possibly the article itself should mention the naming discrepancy). The fact of the matter is that the D's capitalization varies across many reliable sources without any thus far seen which refer to the naming issue itself, but just present his name either one way of the other. I take it from that long variance over his career that Mr. Macd/Donald himself may not care very much or he could have clarified the issue but it would be good to get it right and to have the article's title and his name's use internally not be at odds.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:40, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

It's correct on his Twitter page and on his broadcast show. Norm MacDonald should redirect to Norm Macdonald, and not the other way around. 98.82.153.131 (talk) 16:38, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Support: Seems to be using lowercase now, e.g. here. –CWenger (^@) 20:56, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I didn't realize that I was opening up such a can-of-worms. I just assumed Norm spelled his name the way all the Comedy Central press releases and their website for the new Sports Show were spelling it - Macdonald. I guess I really stepped right in it...that wasn't my intention at all. I now believe Norm must have some personal issue with the spelling of his last name. I do agree with Fuhghettabout that this issue needs to be resolved - for consistency and accuracy. To that end, I have emailed Comedy Central questioning their spelling his name with a 'd' (instead of 'D') when it appears Norm spelled it MacDonald in past work credits. So far, no response from them. I will be very surprised if they do respond. I also looked at the Screen Actors Guild website, but they do not have an online list of registered stage names.RedEyedCajun (talk) 05:33, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


I offer the following evidence supporting change to Macdonald:

(1) Norm has worked at the Ice House Comedy Club and they have Norm listed as "Macdonald" -[5]
(2) "DIRTY WORK" (1998) movie box cover picture with credit "Norm Macdonald" -[6]
(3) Current work credit on Comedy Central is "Norm Macdonald" -[7]
(4) Current work bio credit on Comedy Central is "Norm Macdonald" -[8]
Addendum:
(5) Norm's current verified twitter account has "Norm Macdonald" on it -[9]
(5a) For those with computers that won't allow you to view twitter accounts, please look here to verify (5) - [10]
(6) Current work credit is "Norm Macdonald" on Game Show Network, where Norm is host of "High Stakes Poker" - [11]
(7) ESPN article with "Macdonald" version -[12]
RedEyedCajun (talk) 11:31, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I am trying to find reliable personal and work sources as close to Norm as possible. I have dismissed outright the print press because journalists are notorious for spelling names wrong. Above, Fuhghettaboutit cited The New York Times as support for the MacDonald version. However, I found this article in The New York Times where they use the Macdonald version, thus proving my point that the print press is an unreliable source when it comes to spelling names. RedEyedCajun (talk) 01:16, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I want to respectfully address several points Fuhghettaboutit cited above as proof supporting the MacDonald version. "It appears Norm co-authored a book ("Screwed") where his name was spelled with the upper case D: 3." First, "Screwed" is a movie starring Norm and possibly co-written by him. Second, the website cited is not the official website for the movie, and the MacDonald version found on it was typed in by a person, who may or may not have "corrected" the spelling in the 'press kit' to the more common and familiar MacDonald; therefore, it is an unreliable source. The official website for "Screwed" has no mention of Norm, at least as far as I can find, so no help there in this matter. RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Further, Fuhghettaboutit mentions an SNL archive website, which may or may not be an official NBC SNL website (probably not). However, on the official SNL website they do use the MacDonald version. But again, this is done by people who are typing in this info many years (or decade) after the shows Norm appeared in were broadcast. Did they also "correct" Macdonald to the more common and familiar MacDonald, as so many so-called journalists and bloggers have apparently done, compounding this name error? I now truly believe so, and I now believe this is how this name debate started and is being kept alive - through compounded Web and print press error, both past and present. I would prefer to see the original SNL video showing the version of Macd/Donald that was used in the original on-screen credits as orignally broadcast. But I suspect, like so many TV and movie credits, they spell the entire name in capital letters, so probably no help there in this matter. RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I finally got a look at Norm's many different Facebook accounts and myspace account. As far as I can tell, except for one version of a Facebook account which appears to be an old Facebook account created by a fan, they appear to be 'real' and all use the MacDonald version. However, Norm admitted on David Letterman's show that he isn't interested in the Internet, computers or computer savvy, so did he hire some outside computer geek to set up and manage these accounts and they "corrected" his name from Macdonald to the more familiar MacDonald? (probably yes) Has Norm ever even bothered to look at these pages? From looking at these pages, I see no evidence to support an assumption that he has looked at them. Most stars (especially those not computer savvy) hire someone to set-up and manage their facebook and myspace accounts because it takes so much time. RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

So, that only leaves Norm's personal Twitter account. I still can't view Norm's personal Twitter account, which I know he personally uses because he recently tweeted Robin Williams Steve Martin while on the Letterman show (a fact well documented on the Web). A post above by 98.82.153.131 says Norm personally tweets using the Macdonald version. Is this true or not? If its true, then I think ALL the reliable evidence I have presented above is overwhelming that Norm spells his name Macdonald. Therefore, if true, I respectfully request again that the title be changed, pages be moved as necessary and all mention on Wiki pages of Norm Macdonald(actor and comedian) be changed to reflect the correct spelling (as far as any reasonable person can humanly determine) of this living person's name. And if we are wrong, then Norm has no one to blame but himself! RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

By searching 'Google images' I have confimed it's true, that at least since 4-3-2011, Norm Macdonald's verified twitter account http://twitter.com/normmacdonald has been changed to display the correct version of Norm's last name which is Macdonald -with lower case 'd'. Here is the actual proof[13] for those of you, like myself, who can't open Norm's actual twitter account from your computer. Originally, the MacDonald version was on Norm's twitter account when he began tweeting in Feb 2011. But now that Norm started using his "long dormant" account, he has recently corrected his name on this account to Macdonald. This just varifies my theory that people (including people Norm himself hired to set-up his personal twitter account) have been assuming he uses the more common and familiar MacDonald version. They have all had good intentions, but we now know for certain (and without any doubt) that they were wrong when they corrected Macdonald to MacDonald! I found out that Norm only started using his "long dormant" twitter account in Feb 2011- [14] and while it took several months for Norm to correct his name on his personal twitter account, he has corrected it and that is now a fact in evidence. It is LONG past time that the Wiki community support this change of a living person's name to the Macdonald version on all titles and within all Wiki articles. So say we all??? RedEyedCajun (talk) 10:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

In my 05:33,3 May 2011 post, I stated "it appears Norm spelled it MacDonald in past work credits." After many hours wasted on this, I have not been able to confirm that assumption, so I now retract that statement. Addendum: In fact, the only work credits I have been able to find use the Macdonald version. RedEyedCajun (talk) 07:12, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

(for retracted statements, feel free to strikethrough) --Lexein (talk) 13:59, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - Moving MacDonald --> Macdonald is correct IMO. I've always considered the Macd- version the most credible, based on old credits, major-market newspapers and the majority of news sources reporting from press releases. Currently, the most notable, considered-usually-highly-reliable independent source is "Sports Show Offers Comedian a Comeback". New York Times, April 5, 2011. in which his name and the show name are consistently "Macdonald". (The NYTimes.com site seems to have always used the lowercase). Smaller-market newspapers seem to be the worst offenders with the MacD- capitalization. Addendum: Comedy Central's Sports Show February 2011 press release is internally consistent, using Macd everywhere. --Lexein (talk) 09:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Section about the confusion of surname in article[edit]

The section:

Since Norm Macdonald became popular on SNL, there has been great confusion in the print press and on the Internet about the proper capitalization of Norm Macdonald's surname. Even so-called reliable sources, like The New York Times, are unreliable when it comes to Macdonald's surname, sometimes using both versions (Macdonald / MacDonald) within the same article. Much of this confusion stems from the fact that most (if not all) movie and TV credits display performer's names entirely in uppercase lettering. This leaves journalists and bloggers with the responsibility to either do the hard research to find the correct surname version or make the easy (but wrong) assumption that Macdonald uses the more common version: MacDonald.

While the Internet helped propagate the incorrect version of Macdonald's surname, in early 2011, the Internet played a major role in helping to correct this festering surname confusion. In April 2011, Macdonald and Comedy Central named his new show Sports Show with Norm Macdonald on their web site and in press releases.[1] Also, the Game Show Network web site, where Macdonald is the new host of High Stakes Poker, has his credit as Macdonald.[2] Macdonald did many interviews to promote these new shows. In these interviews, Macdonald discussed his older brother Neil Macdonald, who is an award-winning CBC News journalist.[3] Also, since 4-3-2011, Norm Macdonald's verified twitter account[4] has been changed to display "Norm Macdonald" on his tweets.[5]

For more in depth information on this surname issue, please see 'Requested move 2' on this article's Discussion page.

References
  1. http://sportsshow.comedycentral.com
  2. Press release from Game Show Network using Macdonald
  3. "Norm Macdonald talks to Uptown" by Jared Story -Norm mentions brother Neil Macdonald at end of article
  4. http://twitter.com/normmacdonald
  5. Screen image of Norm Macdonald tweet

#---------------#

Surely there's no need for an in-depth account regarding the confusion of Norm Macdonald's surname in the article? As far as I'm concerned, the article should be about the person and not his name. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 16:08, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

  1. (Too bad you removed the sources. Mind putting them back in, above, just as inline links?) (did it, with RedEyedCajun's permission per WP:TPOC, since it was his text --Lexein)
  2. There's a guideline about not talking about Wikipedia issues in articles, and don't cite Wikipedia, but I can't remember what it is.
  3. POV. The statement "the New York Times is unreliable..." is POV for a general audience to read, no matter what words come before or after it. Worse, that phrase is unsourced - we don't get to make claims like that with the Voice of Wikipedia. Further, it's not even true in the Wikipedia universe: the vast majority of NYT articles mentioning Macdonald capitalize it correctly; even though a few do not, they were published during periods when even Macdonald's agent's press releases got it wrong. Blaming the NYT or singling them out is inappropriate, because they rely on sources, just like we do, and sometimes the sources are crap. The majority of miscapitalizations, as I've pointed out before, occur in smaller-market publications, and this remains true.
  4. The Internet helped nothing, and fixed nothing. The wags and wonks at Comedy Central finally paid attention to their p's, q's and d's.
  5. The controversy over the capitalization of his name didn't make the press, so it's unfortunately Original Research and Synthesis to assemble a history of it in the article, though it's perfectly fine to discuss in the Talk page.
--Lexein (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
First: Sorry, but in my opinion, you can't separate the person from his name on a bio page. This discussion page alone has been useless in addressing this on-going problem, because I just recently had to correct his surname again on this very bio page. I added 'The section' in question only because this on-going confusion proved to me there is "some" need (maybe not going in-depth as far as I did) to have this "surname confusion" addressed directly in the bio page itself, as someone suggested above. Hopefully with 'The section'(or some version of it) in the bio page, people in the future will read the bio article before adding the incorrect surname version, or others will be educated about the correct surname version (and the confusion issue) and they will quickly correct any more confusion from spreading on Wiki pages. If people continue to add the incorrect surname version on Wiki (here, there and everywhere as they did before), then Wiki itself will be guilty again (yes, again) of propagating this surname confusion on it's own web pages.
Second: Since no sources (reliable or not) have discussed this surname confusion, I truly believe this doesn't dismiss the need to address this issue within this bio page based on the obvious fact that there is a "world-wide" confusion about his surname (not just a Wiki confusion), which is just as evident as the fact that "the sky is blue" and doesn't need to be sourced. Just by doing a simple search of "norm macdonald" on any search engine proves there is a "world-wide" confusion about his surname (both in reliable and unreliable sources), so it needs no sourcing to prove it to be true because it is a self-evident truth.
Third: Sorry, but the Internet did play a role in finally correcting this surname confusion. Without the Internet sites of Comedy Central, Game Show Network and Twitter, this issue could never have been resolved by Norm Macdonald himself, as, witness, it wasn't resolved before. It's only because Macdonald recently started working again on TV (2011) with two different networks with web sites, which always used his correct surname, and he began personally using Twitter that everyone could finally see for themselves how the man himself actually capitalized his surname. That had never happened before, so the confusion persisted before. No one could continue to deny this correct version anymore. This all only happened very recently (2011) and couldn't have happened without these undeniable internet sources which are personally connected to Macdonald.
Fourth: When it comes to Macdonald's surname in the New York Times, they have been all over the map. Therefore, they have been unreliable when it came to his surname, whether it is in five articles or twenty, sorry, but that's still unreliable (and confusing) to anyone trying to figure out his correct surname using NYT articles. It is their responsibility to fact-check their articles before they go to print or post them to their web site. The excuse that an "agent's press releases" were wrong is no excuse for their errors in print. They are the NYT and they can't do a simple thing like fact-check a celebrity's name before going to print? I stand by the stmt the NYT is an unreliable source for Macdonald's correct surname. Sorry, but a simple Google search proves this to be a true and obvious stmt...not just my POV.
However, I am curious to see what others have to say about 'The section'(or some version of it) being placed in the bio page. RedEyedCajun (talk) 10:31, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I laid the groundwork for this when I said in passing in the RM discussion "(possibly the article itself should mention the naming discrepancy)." However, when I said this, what I actually had in my mind's eye was something like this:
"Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald, with his surname sometimes presented in the media as MacDonald[1][2][3] (born October 17, 1963), is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor..."
Whatever form the mention should take, if any, it must not contain a self-reference to Wikipedia.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:30, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I would be very satisfied with that, but with two changes:
"Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald, with his surname sometimes incorrectly presented in the media as MacDonald[1][2][3] (born October 17, 1963), is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor..."--RedEyedCajun (talk) 12:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't think we should include "incorrectly". There is no original research in the first because multiple reliable sources do present it one way and others do present it another way. However, we have no source which passes on the matter directly at all. For naming of the article purposes, I was satisfied that after our due diligence, it is better to have this article at the lowercase spelling (and we do have to have a title, after all), but I am not convinced that we know beyond a moral certainty that MacDonald is "incorrect". It's original research to say so based on an inductive argument from evidence that is persuasive—even very persuasive—but not conclusive.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
  • I support a shorter version with occasionally. Because no RS have discussed the discrepancy per se, the RS can (IMHO) only be used to indicate which is the most recent:
"Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald (until recently, occasionally reported as MacDonald[1][2][3]), born October 17, 1963, is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor.".
--Lexein (talk) 13:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
We do not have a database of all sources such that we know he is not still being "reported" under the alternate form. Moreover, "occasionally" is an opinion on frequency (and, in fact, it appears he was most often credited with the uppercase D until recently; so it doesn't even appear to be correct). "Sometimes" or "at times", in place of occasionally, does not suffer from this problem. I see no reason we need to comment on time frame and doing so is original research. The only thing we know conclusively from sources is that his name has been given under both versions, sometimes one way, sometimes another, so that's all we should report; not when and not characterizing which is correct directly. Let's put no gloss on it whatever:

Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald, with his surname sometimes presented as MacDonald[1][2][3] (born October 17, 1963), is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor...

--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Changed my mind: it occurs to me that dropping the discrepancy to a note is precisely what footnotes are for.
Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald[Note 1] (born October 17, 1963), is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor...
==Notes==
^[1] His surname is sometimes presented as MacDonald with a capital "D".[1][2] As of 2011, Comedy Central reports the lowercase form.[3][[4]
--Lexein (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
That looks good to me.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:27, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
(Please excuse my impatience for breaking in here, but I've reached my breaking point on this continuing nonsense.) Norm Macdonald is currently personally signing his verified Twitter tweets as Norm Macdonald. Period. (I won't waste any more of my valuable time on this by citing the many reliable sources available to prove this fact and other facts below, because you folks just continue to ignore them all.) Macdonald's tweeting is the most reliable source anyone could ever hope to cite - directly from the horses mouth...but in this case, the man's own hand. That fact alone should end this nonsense. But if you need more, I supplied all the reliable evidence supporting the Macdonald version in the discusion above (see 'Requested move 2') and none of the evidence presented was disputed or contradicted by anyone. Need even more, then in recent and past interviews, Norm Macdonald has discussed his brother Neil Macdonald (Norm's family surname is Macdonald, folks...not MacDonald) who happens to be an award winning CBC journalist and is presented on the CBC web site (and cited in other reliable news organizations) as Neil Macdonald. Are you folks saying the CBC (a reliable news organization) doesn't know how to correctly capitialize the surname of their own award-winning journalist, employed by them? Are you folks saying Norm Macdonald is a liar and Neil Macdonald is not his brother? Neil Macdonald has also discussed his comedian/actor brother Norm. If you folks want to go on pretending Norm's surname is not Macdonald because you cite some now discredited "reliable sources" who went to print in the past using the incorrect MacDonald version, then this would be prime evidence as to why comedians/media have such a low opinion on Wiki's reliability.
It's a provable fact that the MacDonald version is not supported any longer by any "reliable sources" because the hand of Norm Macdonald himself has totally discredited their so-called reliablity on their past/present reporting by incorrectly presenting his surname as MacDonald. The only correct/factual statement supported by reliable evidence personally connected to Norm Macdonald (and no longer contradicted by second-hand, now-proven-unreliable sources) is the following:
"Norman Gene "Norm" Macdonald, with his surname sometimes incorrectly presented in the media as MacDonald[1][2][3] (born October 17, 1963), is a Canadian stand-up comedian, writer and actor..." --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
The above stmt (which I made a BIG compromise in accepting in place of the entire section I orginally posted) would stand up in any court of law in any country on the planet, folks. But not on a Wiki bio page for a living person? This should concern every Wiki administrator. As such, I am going to do the correct thing and post that factual stmt now. If anyone can prove that stmt is incorrect, then prove it here first before you remove it from the bio page. --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Please read WP:TIGERS. We all get that you're upset, and that nothing anyone else does to bring the "obvious truth" into the article will make you happy. There hasn't been consensus yet, and discussion is still going, so please don't make unsourced claims, or edits to the article until this is settled. Please remember that all unsourced claims can be challenged or removed, especially in WP:BLP. Sources don't state "incorrect" or a synonym, so we can't either. IMHO it doesn't belong in the lead, but in a footnote, because that's the only place that observations by an editor can ever go. The footnote can have refs in it. Let's line up the sources, agree on them, and then add the footnote. And no, nobody is claiming that "D" was ever correct, just that it was reported, and that now, only "d" is reported both in books about Norm, and by Norm's business interests. That's all we can say!
TV Guide, ref #3, gets it right 16 out of 27 times. The Uptown interview, ref #4, gets it right 61 times, and wrong at the 62nd. But the Shales book, ref #6, gets it right 100%, as does this Adam Sandler: America's comedian by Bill Crawford, using "Macd". So books and Comedy Central are our most reliable sources for the correct capitalization. Here's my revised footnote, with actual ref #s:
^1 The capitalization of Norm Macdonald's surname has been inconsistently reported in publications such as TVGuide[3], but books discussing Norm (Shales,[6] and Crawford[26]), the Game Show Network[2], and Comedy Central (Sports Show[22][23] and Norm's album[24]) all consistently report "Macdonald" (lowercase "d") as his surname.
I hope this satisfies. --Lexein (talk) 09:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
I appreciate all the time you put into that. However, I think you missed my original intent for 'the section'. The discussion was supposed to be on my original section. I tried discussing that, but some folks went a whole different direction. Okay, fine. I went with that. The 'stmt' belongs in the article, is a much better solution from my original section and can be supported by footnotes. If you want to now discuss a footnote mention, then that is too far from the original sections intent (or the 'stmt' I support being in the article) to ever solve this on-going problem with folks adding MacDonald version within bio article. That's the only reason I started this in the first place. You may as well do nothing at all because that will be the result with a footnot mention which few will ever read. WP does have rules that allow adding content which is supported by self-evident facts. Norm Macdonald's surname certainly now falls under that rule, but doesn't need to because his correct surname also has reliable sources to back it up. Norm Macdonald's active Twitter account and his work credits (both past and present) are self-evident, reliable, determinate sources for his correct surname. No one has denied that here. To argue that these sources are somehow not self-evident and determinate is like saying the signature on a famous painting is not a self-evident determinate source for the way a famous artist signs his name if so-called "reliable media sources" incorrectly spelled his name wrong in the past and other reliable media sources cannot be cited which mention these incorrect spellings. These errors in print have no standing whatsoever on the original source being self-evident and therefore, determinate. Does anyone see my point and my intent? --RedEyedCajun (talk) 12:32, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
As approaches are discussed and found wanting based on guideline and policy, alternatives are suggested. This is normal.
A re-reading of the WP:OR policy shows that there is no room for facts unsupported by reliable sources: "fact" is written right into it. No reliable source discusses the capitalization discrepancies, so we can't either, nor assert which is correct or incorrect.
Twitter is not a reliable source, please stop using it. Self-evidence, or truth, is not a reliable source: see WP:V. We should not use two sources to synthesize a fact, such as "correct" or "incorrect": see WP:SYNTH.
At the moment, IMHO, the best we can do is add a well-cited footnote about consistency, a banner on this Talk page, and a warning which appears in edit mode for the Talk page and article. How can these measures not be enough?
No matter what we do, new editors will probably still add the wrong capitalization at some point, and we'll just correct it, as usual, and refer to the banners, and The Dude will abide. --Lexein (talk) 13:20, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
"...a warning which appears in edit mode for the...article." Please explain further. Maybe that would be enough to prevent most of the on-going problem. --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
  • A good example is visible in edit mode (whole page or section) for List of common misconceptions - it's this template, implemented with the {{editnotice}} tag. We would request this editnotice per the procedures there, then an administrator will create the editnotice page. Afterwards, no further action is required. Here's my suggestion:
{{editnotice| | header = READ THIS FIRST: Capitalization of Macdonald | headerstyle = font-size: larger; text-align: center; background: yellow; | expiry = indefinite | text=The most reliable sources (books by Shales (2003), and Crawford (2000), and Norm Macdonald's current business interests, [[GSN]] and [[Comedy Central]]) all use '''Macdonald''' (lowercase "d"), so, by consensus of interested editors, please use this capitalization in this article. | style = background-color: #fee | image = [[File:Stop hand nuvola alternate.svg|40px]] }}
Note: editnotices originate off page, so can't inline ref on page, but could weblink to the sources, or Google books pages. But IMHO harvard-style reference to the book author's last name should suffice. The notice should be brief, IMHO. There's also a nifty banner at the top of Talk:List of common misconceptions, which could contain identical brief text. --Lexein (talk) 13:30, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I would fully support this solution and thank you for all your efforts and time spent on this issue. --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:19, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) has apparently refused Lexein's (talk) request to restore the five references he stripped from my original section, which he posted inside his edit above. What can be done to correct this posting error? --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:02, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
At this point, with your permission, I just took care of it, per WP:TPOC with your permission, and the text wasn't JaeDyWolf's to manipulate, and including the refs doesn't change the sense of the discussion. I assume that pseudo-refs are still satisfactory, since true refs and reflists are sort of a nightmare on talk pages. --Lexein (talk) 13:30, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
RedEyedCajun, there's no need for malice; the references weren't needed for the point I was making and if consensus were to be reached that the paragraph should be restored, the references are happily preserved in the article history. JaeDyWolf ~ Baka-San (talk) 19:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussionwise... yep, it's good to not type some words, and to deliberately ignore some words, and remember slack. --Lexein (talk) 19:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
JaeDyWolf, I don't know what malice you are talking about. (Malice is a very harsh judgement and truly hurt.) It had been 3 days since Lexein (not me) requested you restore the references. However, I also wanted my references restored here and I knew Lexein was very knowledgeable about this topic and would probably respond with help. However, if you actually found anything I wrote about you malicious, then I do truly apologize. While I'm at it, I would also like to apologize to Lexein and Fuhghettaboutit (who did their very best to help) because I was very brash to them with my impatience on this frustrating Catch-22 situation. --RedEyedCajun (talk) 08:19, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
I think User:Lexein (talk) and Fuhghettaboutit both understood my use of the words 'continuing nonsense' because they have been involved since the very start, but just to clarify those words during recent disussion "(Please excuse my impatience for breaking in here, but I've reached my breaking point on this continuing nonsense. -08:53, 25 May 2011 )", I offer this: In the 'Move afternote: proper capitalization of title' section above, I wrote, "I stand corrected...this nonsense goes on, and on, and....! I see this was being debated here since at least 2007." -07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC) By 'nonsense', I was referring to the inability to finally determine the true capitalization for Norm's surname for so many years here on Wiki - therefore 'continuing nonsense.' I thought I had solved this puzzle of 'surname confusion' in the 'Requested move 2' section, after I spent a week and countless hours researching this on a slow dial-up modem and consensus was finally reached. So imagine my frustration and disappointment when it appeared to me that others were now again apparently implying Macdonald wasn't necessarily correct and that it wasn't possible to say on Wiki that "surname sometimes incorrectly presented in the media as MacDonald." Once Lexein said, "And no, nobody is claiming that "D" was ever correct, just that it was reported...", that I then began understanding/addressing his true point (i.e. "Sources don't state "incorrect" or a synonym, so we can't either"). I even went to the trouble of going to the WP:OR discussion page to get some clarity from other neutral editors about whether or not WP:OR applied to living celebrities names or just ideas. They all agreed that I couldn't make the 'stmt' that "MacDonald was incorrect" because WP:OR applied. Some appeared to agree that a primary source like "Twitter" could be used as source that Norm capitialized his surname as Macdonald, but that's as far as I could go with that primary source because under Wiki rules, that source alone doesn't prove MacDonald isn't an alternate version. I now finally understand the controlling Wiki rule. --RedEyedCajun (talk) 22:59, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Excellent! I went through exactly the same thing, long ago, that's why I have some compassion with the frustration. To purloin a phrase, Wikipedia is a harsh mistress. --Lexein (talk) 23:17, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Influences[edit]

Norm has said that he reads a lot of books by Russian authors, particularly Tolstoy. He says that they are his comedic influences. http://wsf1027fm.blogspot.fi/2012/07/podcast-episode-287ish-norm-macdonald.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.81.204 (talk) 16:14, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Plus Tolstoy was big on the chat show circuit in 19th century Russia :) 83.217.122.76 (talk) 16:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

French-Canadian?[edit]

Nationality was listed as French Canadian. Two things wrong with this. One, that's not a nationality (Quebec is not a separate country yet), and two, just because he's from Quebec does not mean he's French-Canadian. I've changed to just Canadian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.77.149.244 (talk) 01:46, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Bob Dylan[edit]

http://www.bdcwire.com/heres-the-really-weird-story-norm-macdonald-told-about-bob-dylan-last-night/

Norm Macdonald on Bob Dylan if it is of any use here? EDLIS Café 20:03, 21 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdRicardo (talkcontribs)

Sounds like it's just a description of a dream he had. I would say there's no reason to work it in. Ptprs (talk) 08:07, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Birthdate[edit]

So all his bios say he was born in 1963, but a couple weeks ago Geoff Edgers at The Washington Post did a story about Norm where he claimed he was born in 1959. The story can be read here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/entertainment/norm-macdonald/

The relevant line is this: "He tells everyone he was born in 1963, but he was really born in 1959."

This has now seemingly been confirmed by Norm's brother Neil Macdonald, who works for CBC News. Neil put out an article today about Norm's new book: http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/arts/norm-macdonald-book-1.3740268

It includes a photo of the two of them as children, accompanied by this caption: "Norm Macdonald's first day of school in Valcartier, Que., circa 1964. Norm was five in this photo, and his brother Neil, on the right, was seven."

Later he writes: "I've known Norm for nearly 57 years, and still can't say I know what he really thinks."

Regardless of what the bios say, I think it's pretty clear the guy was born in '59. Certainly his brother has no reason to lie. As far as the day and the month, Edgers refers to Norm as 56 rather than 57, which would mean his birthday hasn't yet come around this year. Similarly, Neil says he's known Norm for NEARLY 57 years. This would lead me to believe the October 17 date might very well be correct, we've just got the wrong year. However, that's just speculation.

With all this said, I recommend changing Norm's birth date to 1959, with no day or month until those are confirmed.

Agreed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.253.251 (talk) 15:49, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. However, it needed to be properly cited and formatted, which I've done. -- Tenebrae (talk) 16:52, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)