Talk:North Africa

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Wikipedia CD Selection
WikiProject icon North Africa is included in the Wikipedia CD Selection, see North Africa at Schools Wikipedia. Please maintain high quality standards; if you are an established editor your last version in the article history may be used so please don't leave the article with unresolved issues, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the DVDs.


I have archived earlier conversations. I hope we can move forward from here with a positive and civil tone. Naahid بنت الغلان Click to talk 02:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


Is it really an unadulterated fact that Sudan is part of North Africa? Shouldn't that be in the Sub-Saharan Africa article? (talk) 14:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, socks of Mariam83 pop up every few months to say the same thing. --Kralizec! (talk) 01:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Quite apart from that remark, do you not feel that if multiple people are bringing this up, that there may not be something valid in it without merely saying "Yeah..." ? If one looks at the geography/climate/fauna/flora/culture of Sudan we see that it has far more in common with say Chad or Uganda than Morocco or Tunisia. Likewise the population is far more like that of a Sub-Saharan nation than a Southern Mediterranean one. Having read the archives, from what I understand, it is only because the official position of the USA that "Sudan is in North Africa" that it is included here. Meanwhile actual North Africans feel otherwise(as was made clear, sometimes with vulgarity), and the satellite images, fauna, flora etc etc would suggest that Sudan is NOT North Africa. So the question then becomes...Is wikipedia merely a projection of US propaganda, or is it an independent and unbiased factual resource? (talk) 11:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

  • Sudan is part of the Northeast África(with Etiópia, Somaliland, etc...) and not North África(populations Berbero-Semitics). Northeast África(Sudan, Etiopia, Somalia, etc...) is majority Etiopoid/Camitic/afro-arab populations in the etno-historic factors. Only North/Northeast Sudan is North Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
The UN document [1] is the basis of the article and there Sudan is Nort Afrika.--Stone (talk) 11:06, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
  • the UN is a corruptive organization, not have legitimity..sudan is sahel.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Sudan is not classed as being in North Africa by the people of North Africa. Mrmisr (talk) 09:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

This is the sa e problem as your belief that the tern Nile Valley excludes Sudan despite the sources. We go by what reliable sources say, not editors' opinions. Doug Weller talk 19:39, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Removing POV language on W. Sahara[edit]

I noted that Koavf restored without discussion his preferred POV, partisan, language on W. Sahara w/o discussion. I have restored the compromise version achieved in 2007, and tweaked to hopefully achieve a NPOV version that balances both Polisario and Moroccan activist views, and communicates actual facts. (collounsbury (talk) 21:38, 29 September 2008 (UTC))

Sudan not is North Africa[edit]

Sudan is Northeast Africa(Subsaharian Africa of the Northeast). North Africa are the North-Berbero-Semitic peoples("caucasoids"), and Sudanese people not is Berbero-Semitic(Sudan is a Afro-Arab country and not a caucasoid nation). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:49, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying but sudan is still lumped in with north african countries ,i dont consider sudan as north african either because sudanese are black and sudan is a sub saharan african country, but its not what we think now is it,it's what reliable sources say--Wikiscribe (talk) 19:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

First, the colour of Sudanese or their 'racial' make up has fuck all to do with whether Sudan is "North African" - there are black, 'Negroid' Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians of unquestionable North Africaness (and in the instance of the Maghreb, genetic and archaeological suggestions that some of these populations are not related to the slave trade, but predate antiquity). The identification of the populations of North Africa by linguistic filiation says fuck all about their race - "caucasoid nation" is meaningless 19th century claptrap.
Second, climate is not a defining factor in geographical regions as such. The Maghreb, a clear part of North Africa, to take an example, has multiple climate zones - one can not in fact speak of a "North African" climate - there are climates that cover North Africa, in the plural. Sudan, like Mauretania and in fact any of the Sahara straddling countries, presents ambiguities. Sudan is both partially Saharo-North African AND sub-Saharan. More than one thing. Such categories are merely analytical ones of convenience and not things that exist as platonic ideals. Get over it. (collounsbury (talk) 18:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC))
  • Sudan in dark green??? Sudan is light green in the map with Mauritania(Mauritania too have DNA of the North Africa and not is Dark green in the map, because Sudan is diferentt of Mauritania?? why??

QI prove of Sudan not is North african:

North Africa = Dark purple(middle QI) and Sudan/Subsaarian Africa = light purple(small QI)!! This is a neurological prove!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic groups black 52%, Arab 39%, Beja 6%, foreigners 2%, other 1%

Sudan is a subsaarian country(52%) and not a north african/arab/berber country(39%)!!! Sudan is Sahel(transition) with Mauritania!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:00, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. The very name "Sudan" is a giveaway as to what region it belongs to. (talk) 12:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Many people think that Caucasnoid and White are interchangeable but it is actually a misconception. Caucasnoid, Mongoliod, and Negroid are actual races. Black and White are just colors depending on how much melanin a person has in their body and are misconceptions of the definition of race. The native North African were said to have dark skin, but were Caucasians. The why European thought that they were White because when they examine skull it was Causcasnoid skull. There is also the melanin dose test on the ancient skeltons to see how much radiate off of their body. Also just because the majority of people who live in Sudan are black does not mean all of them are and the classification of a person being black differs in varies countries—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)(talk) 03:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The UN document [2] is the basis of the article and there Sudan is Nort Afrika.--Stone (talk) 11:06, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
  • the UN is a corruptive organization..!this classification not is scientific; it´s a pseudoscience of obscure interests.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:04, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Sudan proof?[edit]

Is anyone having reliable proof that Sudan is North Africa, and not in Sub-Saharan Africa, or else it should be removed. Yes. (talk) 15:49, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The UN document [3] is the basis of the article and there Sudan is Nort Afrika.--Stone (talk) 11:06, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Linked not Separated[edit]

Whatever terms one uses to describe the various regions, one thing is clear, the Sahara in all respects joins North Africa to Southern Africa. Firstly, the Sahara is land, not outer-space - so there is no physical separation. Secondly, the Northern most states of Africa all have land borders with states that are to the south of them - some in the Sahara, some only partially so. Thirdly, the Northern most states all have cultural links to the lands to the south of them, sharing languages, religious beliefs and other cultural traits - including extensive, ancient trading links. Fourthly, the northern most states to the far east and west of the region share coastlines with their southern neighbours (Egypt with Sudan, Morocco with Mauritania). Fifth, the states to the north and their southern neighbours share political affiliations in, for example, the Arab League and the African Union. One of the world's major rivers flows from the South, to North Africa). Ackees (talk) 17:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC) FUCK

Another messed up Article[edit]

What is the deal about North Africa, we seem to have a bunch of messed up folks working on these things. I clicked on a link concerning the peoples of North Africa and it was redirected to an article on West Asia. There are also Negroid africans and Berbers living in North Africa. Where are the admins for wikipedia regarding some of these articles?PB666 yap 23:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Sudan is Sahel and not North Africa[edit]

  • And the South Sudan is Central Africa..!!
The UN document [4] is the basis of the article and there Sudan is Nort Afrika.--Stone (talk) 11:06, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

While, the UN document may be the basis, the climate, geography, fauna, flora etc show Sudan having far more in common with Sub-Saharan Africa(where people do not speak ebonics) than with North Africa. In addition while the Northern part of Sudan is technically in the Sahara region, the largest population clusterings are in the tropical South of the country. That so many people regard Sudan as NOT being part of North Africa can not be dismissed with one UN document. Likewise, while it is not acceptable wikipedia evidence, I have friends who come from Algeria who most certainly do not consider Sudanese to be "like them". —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Furthermore, said UN document has a broad "East Africa" designation, in which both Ethiopia and Somalia on the one hand, and Zimbabwe and Zambia on the other are lumped into this category. Does anyone honestly believe that Somalia and Zimbabwe share any similarities despite both being on the continent of Africa? EVERYTHING about these two states is different, linguistically, biologically, geographically, climate, fauna, flora, etc etc etc. This is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that Zimbabwe is in east Africa! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:22, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Western Sahara Case and Flag[edit]

Western Sahara is a territory and not a country. It's actually administered by the kingdom of Morocco. The presence of Western Sahara in the table is definitely justified if the term TERRITORY is associated to Western Sahara. The flag associated to Western Sahara is presented here as if Western Sahara is a sovereign country while it's not according to the UN. The flag put beside Western Sahara is the flag of the separatist faction Polisario Front claiming independence of the Western Sahara and backed in Tindouf south Algeria. My proposal is to mention "Western Sahara territory" without flag. That's exactly what the UNHCR is mentioning in its official website.--Moroccansahraoui (talk) 09:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Basic Propeties of the Table[edit]

The basic facts in the table do not add up. If you look at the figures for population, GDP and GDP per capita then the relationship should (obviously) hold such that:

GDP per capita = GDP / Population

As this doesnt hold, one of these three figures must be incorrect (or measured differently). Does anyone have an explanation and/or correction we can include? (talk) 20:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Unreliable source - material[edit]

Content from / FSTC is an unreliable source, as discussed on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_18#History_of_Science. None of its publications are peer-reviewed, and its authors often exhibit a strong bias and incomplete or flawed citation practices. The site has been used as a source in numerous articles to make extraordinary claims about Islamic invention and discovery. I am working to remove general references to the cite, and extraordinary claims where they stem directly and solely from a reference. Many of these claims were added by a user who has a history of using flawed sources for extraordinary claims, as discussed on Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Jagged_85. That page details numerous examples where claims from these sources contradict more reliable sources, on a scale which casts the entirety of the material originating from the site into doubt. If you would like to discuss this or any related removal with me, please leave a note on my talk page. Dialectric (talk) 12:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

sudan 2[edit]

  • sudan not is north africa; sudan is sahel..UN is a corruptive organization and ilegitime - pseudoscientific..only north sudan and northeast is north africa; central, south, southwest sudan is northeast of central africa.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:07, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
  • and mauritania is north africa..northern tchad, northern mali, northern niger, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:09, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Add names of countries on the map[edit]

What this article (like, probably, many other ones) lacks, makes it much less useful as a source of information. A reader sees from a provided in the article list what countries are considered part of Northern Africa and gets some information about these countries from a provided table. A reader also sees a map of Northern Africa with the borders between countries shown. But he cannot connect one with the other, because the names of the countries are not shown on the map. I think it is a huge deficiency. I actually believe it has to be one of the standard requirements to specify the country names on a map when writing an article about a geopolitical region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

South Sudan[edit]

Today South Sudan separated from Sudan and became a sovereign state. The map should be updated to include the border between Sudan and South Sudan. Thanks. Vis-a-visconti (talk) 23:52, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Is South Sudan part of North Africa? It is not in the sources, I know technically it is, but politically, culturally, etc it is most def not.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 08:28, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree but the U.N has decided to put it in North Africa region, which doesn't make sens. Tachfin (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Page move discussion[edit]

The article page was recently moved to 'Africa/North Africa'. Where was the recent page move or rename discussed? I don't see it here on this discussion page, where there should at least be a link to the discussion. The formatting with the / looks odd to me. Would you please explain the change if it is not explained elsewhere? Would you make the same change to South Asia? Dialectric (talk) 14:54, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

I was just history merging the page. Graham87 15:03, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
I understand the merging of histories but the current title is "Africa/North Africa". I don't think you did that intentionally it should be moved back to "North Africa" (see move log) --Tachfin (talk) 15:09, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
As Tachfin says, the move log says that in that history merge, you moved North Africa to Africa/North Africa. Can you rename it back to just 'North Africa'? Dialectric (talk) 15:13, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
I've attempted to explain why nothing is wrong at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive228#Histmerge needs fixing. If anyone is still seeing the title of this page as "Africa/North Africa", you need to purge your cache because there is no problem with what Graham87 did. BencherliteTalk 00:32, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I see the correct title now. I didn't know that a cache purge was necessary.--Tachfin (talk) 01:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

South Sudan[edit]

Is South Sudan actually part of North Africa? Sudan was/is listed as North Africa, but surely not South Sudan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sudan and Mauritania[edit]

Sudan and Mauritania are Sahel, NOT North Africa! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:59, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

South Sudan[edit]

While Sudan is definitely part of North Africa, I don't think South Sudan can be, geographically or politically, considered in North Africa. I've removed this from the article. (talk) 09:16, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Sudan is Sahel, not North Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Arab as ethnic group[edit]

This article says "Arabs" and Berbers are the largest ethnic groups in modern Egypt - that's truth ethno-linguistically but not genetically. The DNA history of Egypt article shows that genetically Egypt's racial profile hasn't shifted that much from ancient to modern times - are we saying that ancient Egyptians were ethnic> That's a tricky assertion.Gymnophoria (talk) 14:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Saharan Africa?[edit]

It's weird, if the region below the Sahara is called "Sub-Saharan Africa", then why isn't the Northern part called "Saharan Africa" in return? (talk) 00:58, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Am removing a reference[edit]

I am removing a reference to [5]. I am not in the habit of removing sources. However, this time, I found nothing in this American federal authorities document, which wes related to anything in the paragraph where the single reference to this source occurred. North Africa or Northen Africa is just mentioned once in the entire document, namely in the definition of belonging to the race White:

A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

(Precisely what they meant by "North Africa" was not clarified there.)

Perhaps some earlier version of the article contained some reference to "race" in this paragraph. However, the present formulations do not contain such references, as far as I can see. If I missed something, feel free to revert my edit; but please also drop a line here explaining what the purpose of the note is! JoergenB (talk) 12:59, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

You forgot about Poland[edit]

The list of countries in the preamble somehow managed to exclude Chad which is North Africa by many definitions, except the extremely narrow one from the UN. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 07:40, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, there is absolutely no way that Chad is in North Africa. Mrmisr (talk) 23:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmisr (talkcontribs) 22:44, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Original Research[edit]

The distinction between North Africa and much of Sub-Saharan Africa is historically and ecologically significant because of the effective barrier created by the Sahara Desert for much of modern history. From 3500 BC, following the abrupt desertification of the Sahara due to gradual changes in the Earth's orbit, this barrier has culturally separated the North from the rest of the continent.[2] As the seafaring civilizations of the Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims and others facilitated communication and migration across the Mediterranean Sea, the cultures of North Africa became much more closely tied to Southwestern Asia and Europe than Sub-Saharan Africa. The Islamic influence in the area is also significant, and North Africa is a major part of the Muslim world.

These statements about culture are not supported by the source cited. The opinions need to be removed if there is not a source to substantiate.

Alienkind (talk) 16:12, 15 October 2016 (UTC)