Talk:Northern Mariana Islands
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|Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team / v0.5|
- 1 Early History Not Covered
- 2 Name In Official Languages
- 3 Section edit
- 4 ChamorroBible.org
- 5 Natives dead
- 6 The Territory of Guam and Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands
- 7 Situation of working women / the Jack Abramoff scandal
- 8 Proposed WikiProject
- 9 Imperial German Flag
- 10 Villages
- 11 Guam contents irrelevant to NMI
- 12 Chamorro Scouting
- 13 Forced Chamorro Evacuation
- 14 Listing of GW Bush in template
- 15 Loose labor regulations cause trafficking and forced abortions?
- 16 Abbreviations
- 17 Do residents of the Northern Marianas need visas to travel to the Schengen Area?
- 18 Is it just me, or..
- 19 Unsourced quotes
- 20 Federalization
- 21 Population
- 22 Government, sub catagory Military
- 23 Added Latitude and Longitude to Infobox:Country
- 24 Spanish possesion during four centuries
- 25 Immigration Laws of the CNMI covenant was unilaterally revoke by the U.S. Congress
- 26 Colony of the USA
- 27 What Filipino languages are spoken?
- 28 official languages
- 29 1 of 2 US Commonwealths?
- 30 Capital Hill or Capitol Hill ?
- 31 "Lawyers must wear shoes"
- 32 Requested move 01 April 2014
Early History Not Covered
As the page I linked to indicates, the islands were inhabitated around 1500 BC by Chamorros, way before the US existed. I therefore find strange that the article does not cover at all history before the US invasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 2004-07-12T18:06:07
- Well, the article was probably derived from the public domain CIA factbook. You welcome to update it. older≠wiser 23:30, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Name In Official Languages
Most Wiki entries for nations and territories list the name of the country in the official languages beneath the English-language name. What is the Chamorro name and Carolinian name for the Northern Mariana Islands?
- I am not aware of a name that refers to the islands collectively. Chamorro refer to individual islands by their modern name or a few local colloquial names (e.g., Aguijan is sometimes called "Goat Island"). Ancient naming has been lost, although I am not 100% certain about this with Carolinians in the CNMI. CyberAnth 17:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. The Chamorro translation of the U.S. Government's Social Security Fact Sheet refers to the CNMI as both "Islan Notte Marianas" and "Sankattan Siha Na Islas Marianas". Any thoughts as to which is correct? The former certainly seems to be a more direct translation. In the latter, I've deduced that "Na" means "the", but I'm not sure about "Sankattan" or "Siha". Any Chamorro speakers out there that can solve this? If we figure this out, we can add it to the main entry.
- There is no single official translation, so numerous variation are seen, but the latter one above seems to be the version most commonly used in NMI government publications. "Sankattan" means "northern," "siha" makes it plural, and "na" links an adjective to a noun.
Thank you very much for your explanation. I added the Chamorro name to the main entry. Do you know any Carolinians who could tell you what they would call the NMI?
There seems to be some problem with aligning the table and still retaining the section edit tags. I've fixed the alignment problems, but the section edit tags have been left out. If someone can find a way to incorporate them, they are welcome. User talk:iKato
- Nearly all of the islands' native population died out during Spanish rule,
Why? Disaster? Illness? Extermination? Bad management?
Did they die out or were they shifted around? And define a lot. I know the Germans and Japanese moved Chamorro and Carolinians around the islands, from here to there. --PurplePopple 11:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I believe its because of disease. The same thing happened in other Pacific islands, the Americas and Australia -Jcdizon 03:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
- AFAIK, there is no current movement for Guam and the CNMI to come together. However, there have been some who have talked about this (see this link; the person who wrote this piece favors statehood for Guam). In 1969, the Mariana Islands district of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (TTPI) and Guam voted on a merger. The Mariana Islands district voted yea, Guam voted nay. Since then, there has been no action on this. - Thanks, Hoshie | 02:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Situation of working women / the Jack Abramoff scandal
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff#Saipan_and_Northern_Mariana_Islands -- the Northern Mariana Islands have been in the news this past few years, revealing what sounds like a terrible situation for women factory workers (sweatshops, sexual exploitation, forced abortions). But apart from one external link (a "Fresh Air" radio show on NPR), that situation isn't mentioned in this article. I would have added a line or two myself, but I have no idea what's going on at present. It's easy to find news media coverage of the Abramoff scandal as a scandal, but I haven't seen any up-to-date coverage of the situation of these women (which says something sad about the priorities of the general news media, I think). -- DSatz 12:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- You will not find such things mentioned in the local press unless they have no choice to mention them because an outside group has again addressed the issue. You will usually only hear positives about improvements. It is self-censorship to improve image. The link to Ms. Magazine, the NPR, and http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/017.html do depict the situation pretty well. CyberAnth 17:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
There is now a proposed WikiProject dealing with the area of Micronesia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Micronesia. Any interested parties should add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest in this project to try to officially start it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 21:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Imperial German Flag
At the very bottom of the page, as if it were hiding, there is an image of the Second Reich German Flag and the Coast of Arms. I understand the link between the Northern Mariana Islands and German occupation, but does each page linked to Germany have its flag and coat of arms on it?
There seem to be a number of pages that have the flag linked to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_German_Empire.svg
- Well, the good news is that they're not there anymore. I wonder how they got there in the first place, anyway. How gould you get an image or text down so far on the page? And when I tried to edit the page and remove the flag and coat of arms, there was nothing there. I found that mighty peculiar. --Kschwerdt514 02:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice to have a list of villages by population. -- Beland 00:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
- There is already a map of the islands, and each of the four municipalities listed in "administrative divisions" comprises of one or several islands. HkCaGu (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Guam contents irrelevant to NMI
I noticed some Guam-related info not relevant to this entry, such as Sergeant Yokoi and Japanese occupation of Guam. Should these be deleted or moved to the Mariana Islands entry? HkCaGu 00:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Chamorro? Thanks! Chris 15:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Forced Chamorro Evacuation
Amazingly missing in the history portion is that the Spanish forcefully relocated all Chamorros to Guam in order to convert them to the Spanish culture and religion, and that explains why Carolinians are as native as Chamorros in the NMI, since when Chamorros were allowed to return to the NMI, the Carolinians were already there. Can someone look this up and add something to this article? HkCaGu 06:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Listing of GW Bush in template
George W. Bush is not "Head of State" of the Northern Mariana Islands, but Head of State in in the Northern Mariana Islands. Listing him in the table as such implies the former and is misleading. We don't list him in invdividual state articles (e.g. California), so why should we list him here?--Jiang 21:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- Such a listing is standard for dependent territories. -- Beland (talk) 03:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Loose labor regulations cause trafficking and forced abortions?
Under Exemptions from some federal regulations it says:
- "The inapplicability of Federal labor regulations has resulted in some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions, as exposed in the March 18, 1998 episode of ABC News' 20/20, and enslaving women and forcing them into prostitution, as the U.S. Department of Justice conviction of several CNMI traffickers in 1999 attests." (Emphasis mine.)
Is this a result of the lack of labor regulations? I.e. were these practices that were legal in this territory? The mentioned conviction shows that this was not so for trafficking. I have no idea about forced abortions.
It would seem plausible if the claim was that a lack of federal oversight led to these problems (not saying this is so - just that that would be a plausible causation). Even so, drawing the connection and concluding that B was caused by A is not the place of Wikipedia - speculation. If there are arguments to be made about this, Appropedia or Issuepedia would be good wikis to analyse and debate, rather than here.
Very good edit. Either the federal government or the CNMI government could have prosecuted if there was adequate enforcement and the violations were known to the right people. The "inapplicability" really only mattered in terms of wage--I've seen USDOL prosecutions on employers not paying overtime. It doesn't matter it was $3.05 per hour; if you didn't pay them 150% or $4.58 per hour after 40 hours, the feds can still go after you.
Now in both Saipan and Northern Mariana Islands a lot improvements can still be made to update the recent changes. For example, Tan Holdings (the biggest company/conglomerate in the CNMI) was among the violators in the class-action suit, but in recent years they have the better working conditions among all the factories, especially how they handled their closures (gave out a million bucks they didn't have to, compared to some who just walked away owing back wages). Both the improvement in the garment industry's work environment and the demise of the industry are probably mentioned, but not balanced with the historic negatives in both articles. HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
The following is still not acceptable:
"However, the lack of labor regulation is not without controversy.
Some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States, have occurred. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions..." (original wording)
It still implies a causal relationship when in fact these practices are mere criminal endeavors. The use of force to effect an abortion or coerce women into prostitution is already illegal. When such things happen in highly regulated labor markets, we do not conclude that the regulations should have been stricter yet. There is simply no causal relationship here. The simple fact that trials resulted from these violations indicate that the Law (criminal Law) was already covering such actions. I suggest the wording be changed to something such as:
"However, the lighter labor regulations are not without controversy.
Some illegal labor practices are known to have occurred..." (proposed changes)
Never heard of "NMP", but I've heard "MP" stands for "Marianas Pacific". According to United States postal abbreviations it used to be "CM" before 1988. There aren't a lot of second letters available after "M", so "P" might have been the best choice.HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, NMP should read MNP, my fault. Thanks for the answer so far, "Marianas Pacific" sounds okay (what about inserting that info in the article?). --FordPrefect42 (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
The original postal code "CM" proved confusing because it was an international postal code for Cameroon; apparently a lot of our mail was ending up in Africa. "MP" (some say it stands for "Marianas Pacific," but that may just be a memory device) was therefore adopted in its place, since other, more obvious, choices were also already taken: "NM" (Northern Marianas) by New Mexico and "MI" (Mariana Islands) by Michigan. "CM" is still used in some other contexts, however, such as boat registration numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 07:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Do residents of the Northern Marianas need visas to travel to the Schengen Area?
The Schengen Agreement encompasses much of Europe, e.g. France, Germany, Italy and many other countries. The article [European Union visa lists] asserts that the Northern Mariana Islands is an "annex 1" territory, meaning that its citizens require a visa to enter the Schengen area. Apparently that's because the Northern Marianas appears in the list on page 10 of this document. Is this true in practice? There's some discussion of this at Talk:European Union visa lists. --Mathew5000 (talk) 10:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me, or..
Not related to the above comment, but " the garment industry is expected to become extinct by 2009"? Is it just me, or...hasn't 2009 already ended? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 13:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed unsourced quotes from Northern_Mariana_Islands#Exemptions_from_some_federal_regulations. Superm401 - Talk 02:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm too busy to write, but Congress has passed and the President has signed the new law taking over CNMI immigration in the next year and establishing a congressional delegate this fall. Adding to that the garment industry is more than half gone, anyone please feel free to update this article (and maybe Saipan too). HkCaGu (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Unless I'm missing it in my quick glance through, there's no explanation of:
- what is the number of US citizens vs foreign workers
- what is the visa status of the foreign workers (temporary guest worker permits, permanent residency) and eligibility for eventual US citizenship
- how this relates to the female-to-male ratio
Government, sub catagory Military
There is no mention of any military facilties within the island group, who is responsible defense, and if any local militia are presently operational. An article from the 19OCT2001 'Stars and Stripes' indicates that the Commonwealth request Congress pass a law allowing it to establish its own department within the National Guard. As far as my searches go, it appears that the Commonwealth has no standing armed forces, even at the militia level, and all defense is the responsibility of the Federal Government.--18.104.22.168 (talk) 03:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Added Latitude and Longitude to Infobox:Country
Added the capital city Lat / Long. to the infobox to keep uniform style with other country/territory articles.
Spanish possesion during four centuries
Northern Mariana Islands was a Spanish possesion during almost 400 years, then a German possesion during 21 years, then a Japanese possesion during 25 years, then an American possesion during 66 years, currently and still counting. For coherence, I have substituted "Spanish possesion" for the vague subtitle "European explorers". By the way, all of those early explorers were Spaniards, or sailed under Spanish flag.
Immigration Laws of the CNMI covenant was unilaterally revoke by the U.S. Congress
I included this information on the article:
In 1976, Congress approved the mutually negotiated Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) in Political Union with the United States. The section 603 (a) of the 1976 Covenant; that indicates that the Commonwealth is in charge of its own Customs and Immigration was unilaterally revoke by the U.S. Government in the 2009.
Transition to U.S. Immigration Law began November 28, 2009 in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI). CNMI's immigration laws have been replaced by the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and other U.S. immigration laws. --Seablade (talk) 04:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
- CNMI still runs its own customs. Immigration control is what they lost. 603 is under "revenue/taxation" and only mentions customs. HkCaGu (talk) 18:14, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
My error, You are right, the U.S. Congress unilaterally revoke or supersede and replace all laws, provisions, or programs of the Commonwealth covenant relating to immigration, the admission of aliens and the removal of aliens from the Commonwealth in the 2009. Not the section 603 (a).
Under the Title VII of the Consolidated Natural Resources Act of 2008 (“CNRA”),1 the Immigration and Nationality Act (“INA”) took effect in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (“CNMI”) beginning on November 28, 2009. This memorandum contains information on the transition and on issues that may arise in cases involving respondents in the CNMI.
Prior to November 28, 2009, the INA did not apply in the CNMI. Rather, a separate immigration system existed in the CNMI. This system was established under the Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands in Political Union with the United States of America (“Covenant”), which was signed in 1975 and codified as 48 U.S.C. § 1801. The Covenant was amended by the CNRA, thus altering the CNMI’s immigration system. Specifically, CNRA § 702(a) amended the Covenant to state that “the provisions of the ‘immigration laws’ (as defined in section 101(a)(17) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(17))) shall apply to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.”2 Further, under CNRA § 702(a), the “immigration laws,” as well as the amendments to the Covenant, “shall . . . supersede and replace all laws, provisions, or programs of the Commonwealth relating to the admission of aliens and the removal of aliens from the Commonwealth.” On November 30, 2009, the Executive Office for Immigration Review opened an immigration court in Saipan, CNMI. Immigration court proceedings for respondents in the CNMI are being conducted at the Saipan Immigration Court.
Colony of the USA
- Technically the United States doesn't have colonies. They are called "territories". And yes, the Northern Marianas are under the United States Federal Government and not as a state. As such it is fair to call it a "colony", and lump it in with Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico, provided that one recognizes that each such territory is governed separately and with a different relationship with the United States Federal Government. If the Northern Marianas wanted to be independent, it probably could be, like other former members of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands who are in a Compact of Free Association--Bruce Hall (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
What Filipino languages are spoken?
There are dozens of Filipino languages. Which one is or ones are spoken in the Northern Marianas? One of the official languages of the Philippines is a form of Tagalog and is called "Filipino". --Bruce Hall (talk) 13:17, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
castilian -spanish (sic)- lost its official status at the end of the spanish rule and has never gained it back. There are no minorities either that had kept it even residually as a patrimonial language. The only official languages these days are carolinian, chamorro and english, so i am deleting the reference to spanish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 12:41, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
1 of 2 US Commonwealths?
"The Northern Mariana Islands, officially the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), is one of the two Commonwealths of the United States of America, the other being Puerto Rico."
- We're talking about what they are, not what they call themselves. HkCaGu (talk) 05:59, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Capital Hill or Capitol Hill ?
"Lawyers must wear shoes"
I've removed a sentence about there being a specific local court rule requiring lawyers to wear shoes, citing to a supposed Local Rule 83.3. I find no such rule among those on the court's website and suspect the sentence is a sarcastic cultural commentary. In the unlikely event that such a rule can be substantiated, someone can reinsert such a sentence, assuming it would be worth mentioning in the first place. Wbkelley (talk) 06:19, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Requested move 01 April 2014
- Covenant to Establish a Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) in Political Union with the United States
- Section 603.(a) The Northern Mariana Islands will not be included within the customs territory of the United States.
- CNMI loses immigration control in 2009