Talk:Oceania

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team / v0.5 / Vital / Core (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the quality scale.
Checklist icon
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Oceania is a continent in English-language world[edit]

In discussing with many native speakers, mostly British or American, but even Australian people, all educated in Oxford University, I realized Oceania is definitively a common way to refer to the otherwise-called-Australia continent in the modern world.

Of course, in Wikipedia, referencing is the way of demonstrating, so here are some English-language references for Oceania as a continent.[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]

I think it is now fair to mention both Australia and Oceania in the introduction. What do you think? Adrien16 (talk) 00:02, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


  1. ^ The Times Atlas of the World : 10th Comprehensive Edition (London)
  2. ^ "Philip's E.A.E.P Atlas". 2003. p. 79. 
  3. ^ Scholastic Atlas of the World. 2003.  "Oceania is the smallest of all the continents"
  4. ^ Chambers Reference Atlas. 2003. 
  5. ^ Barnes & Noble Quick Reference World Atlas. 2006. 
  6. ^ "Continental statistics of the United Nations". Retrieved 2013-03-15.  "Composition of macro geographical (continental) regions, geographical sub-regions, and selected economic and other groupings -- Oceania is listed as a continent."
  7. ^ Harper Collins Concise World Atlas. 2004. 
  8. ^ Rand McNally Answer Atlas. 2006. 
  9. ^ "Collins maps".  "Headers refers to the Oceania as a continent"
  10. ^ "World Atlas".  "Australia/Oceania is one of the continents"
  11. ^ The World - Continents, Atlas of Canada

The lead already notes that Oceania is often considered a continent. CMD (talk) 00:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I just insert the references then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrien16 (talkcontribs) 11:29, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
There are already too many references for that point, there definitely doesn't need to be more. CMD (talk) 11:32, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
It is not the policy of Wikipedia to try to decrease the amount of references....Adrien16 (talk) 11:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
It is wikipedia policy that everything be verifiable. A single good source does this. See Wikipedia:Citation overkill. CMD (talk) 11:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
I did not know that. I've seen a page with 172 citations, it is quiet funny. Adrien16 (talk) 12:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Pages should have many citations, but each point within that page only needs one or two. CMD (talk) 18:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Slight problem. Not all of those explicitly say that they are using Oceania as a continent nor do all of them use Oceania exclusively. For example, the Philip's EAEP source has a map on "Australia and Oceania". I would interpret this as the continent of Australia plus the region of non-continental islands called Oceania. The World Atlas uses "Australia/Oceania" which would probably mean the same thing. And I wouldn't really count the UN as an English language source in the same sense as the Encyclopedia Britannica or the NY Times. Do you have sources from native English speakers that explicitly lists Oceania as a continent (As in "the continents are Asia, Africa.... and Oceania)? Because as a native English speaker I most often come across the term Oceania as a grouping of non-continental islands in the Pacific Ocean, with the continental landmass of Australia sometimes included and sometimes listed alongside it. --Khajidha (talk) 17:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
HERE - it is right for the world atlas. Other references are less ambiguous but you need the paper versions. Here an image for the Scholastic atlas => [1]. It is written explicitly that it is the smallest continent. For the Philip's EAEP source , p79 (see on google books), you have 'food production and population by continent' and Oceania is mentioned as a continent. The Chambers atlas can also be found here [2]: Oceania is compared with the other continents. Harper Collins atlas has divided the world into the different continents and called the last one Oceania, when other atlas called that Australia [3]. You can see in the table of contents of Barnes and Nobles atlas that you have one section for each continent, including Oceania [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrien16 (talkcontribs) 19:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
But are those books that compare Oceania to the other continents actually using Oceania as a continent and not as a convenient statistical group? I have seen atlases that use Oceania as the section heading, but still put the word Australia on the main land mass using the same font as is used for "Asia", "Europe", etc. This is then listed on the map key as the font used for continental names. The name of the country is printed in a smaller type on these maps so that the word "Australia" appears twice (more if the names of the Australian states are printed on the map as well). Again, for the Times Atlas, are these sections specifically called continents? We have sources already that explicitly list Australia as a continent, you need to show something just as concrete. --Khajidha (talk) 20:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Please see my last message above. For those ones, I have been careful when selecting them, because I am aware that sometimes, as you said, Oceania is used in the heading and then Australia is mentioned as the continent (Rand McNally Answer Atlas is a mistake and should not been here). In all those atlases, continents are defined as cultural-political constructs, which is the common usage (Europe includes all islands, same for all other continents). The name of Australia continent when seen as a political construct is Oceania. So it does make sense to compare statistics between continents because a continent IS a region according to that definition and that is why do you find Oceania compared with other continents. If you are picky, you can see online at least the unambiguous Scholastic Atlas and unambiguous Philip's EAEP source p79 (links above) Adrien16 (talk) 13:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC).
You're still not getting it. Very few of those sources say specifically "Oceania is the name of a continent". That simply isn't a common usage in English. In English it is most common for the continent to be Australia (more or less limited to the same territory as the country). When comparing all countries around the world it is common for English sources to use the REGION Oceania and compare it to the CONTINENTS Europe, Asia, etc. Looking at the sources you listed, virtually all of them use the "Australia and Oceania" (or "Australia/Oceania" construction) or use Oceania as a specifically named REGION (not continent). There are a few that used "Oceania" in a list with "Europe, Asia, etc." You are interpreting those as saying that Oceania is the name of a continent, I am telling you that that is not necessarily a valid assumption. Are these listed items SPECIFICALLY called "Continents"? --Khajidha (talk) 15:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I understood perfectly and I answered 2 times now: please follow the links and instructions I have provided in the message above that is now beginning by a HERE (you probably go too far in the past) and you will see that Oceania is mentioned as a continent for those 2 first selected references. For the other sources I provided, it is more ambiguous, because all the continents are compared to Oceania - as you said, it does not mention the world 'continent'. However, perhaps you do not think they are referring to the continent but the region because you would not do that. But I do not think a geographer would compare all the continents together and then choose to compare the continents with Oceania if they do not think Oceania is a continent. It would be comparing apples and bananas, a geographical non-sense and a little rude slap for Australia inhabitants.Adrien16 (talk) 10:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Such a comparison is meaningful if they are using the continents not as continents per se but as convenient groupings of countries. Comparing the continent of Australia (with its sole country) to the continent of Africa (with its dozens) makes little sense. Comparing the Oceanian region to an African region (that is basically the same as the African continent) does. As far as your sources go, I was simply trying to put those two with Oceania used as a continent into perspective with the many others that use it differently. --Khajidha (talk) 15:10, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
You do not know if they use it differently so you cannot put them in perspective. Many atlases chose to use both names Australia and Oceania when they want to compare the continents and still show the region of Oceania that features more countries.Adrien16 (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
well, at least, I'll change some of the ambiguous references for the non-ambiguous ones.Adrien16 (talk) 18:03, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
And I keep the list updated below Adrien16 (talk) 18:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Unambiguous references mentioning explicitly Oceania as a continent and that can be checked online[edit]

[1] that can be checked here

[2] can be checked here - p79, you have 'food production and population by continent' and Oceania is mentioned as a continent.

[3]that can be checked here. Oceania is listed as a continent in the United Nations geoscheme.

Mate, the first reference links to a kiddy book. In the second one, I couldn't find the passage you mention. In the third link, it explicitly says REGION, rather than continent. In other words, none of those links support your case, and one of them contradicts it. Newzild (talk) 00:46, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

More ambiguous references that can be checked online[edit]

[4] that can be checked here: Oceania is compared directly with the other continents.

[5] that can be checked here. The atlas has divided the world into the different continents and called the last one Oceania, when other atlas called that Australia.

[6] that can be checked here - in the table of contents, you have one section for each continent, including Oceania.

[7] that can be checked here. Headers refers to the Oceania as a continent.

References not available online[edit]

[8] [9] [10]Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).


  1. ^ Scholastic Atlas of the World. 2003.  "Oceania is the smallest of all the continents"
  2. ^ "Philip's E.A.E.P Atlas". 2003. p. 79. 
  3. ^ "Continental statistics of the United Nations". Retrieved 2013-03-15.  "Composition of macro geographical (continental) regions, geographical sub-regions, and selected economic and other groupings"
  4. ^ Chambers Reference Atlas. 2003. 
  5. ^ Harper Collins Concise World Atlas. 2004. 
  6. ^ Barnes & Noble Quick Reference World Atlas. 2006. 
  7. ^ "Collins maps".  "Headers refers to the Oceania as a continent"
  8. ^ The Times Atlas of the World : 10th Comprehensive Edition (London)
  9. ^ The Atlas of Canada. Revised Date Modified: August 17, 2004. Accessed on line January 31, 2011.
  10. ^ "Encarta Mexico "Oceanía"". Mx.encarta.msn.com. Archived from the original on 2009-11-01. Retrieved 2009-04-17. 

Your first unambiguous reference links to a page saying that "this photo cannot be viewed because it has either been deleted or marked as private by the user." The second unambiguous reference is to a page that I cannot view as "[I] have either reached a page that cannot be displayed, or have reached [my] viewing limit for this book." The third unambiguous reference brings a "page cannot be found" result. Your first two ambiguous references bring up the same page (image 22 of 34) for me. The image I see is actually an unambiguous usage of Oceania as a continent. Your third ambiguous reference lists Oceania as a section, but it doesn't seem to show anything about whether the book considers Oceania a continent or simply a convenient region. The fourth ambiguous reference gives me a "file not found" page. However, your reference to the headers makes me think that you mean the list at the top of the page "Africa · Asia · Europe · North America · Oceania · South America · World". Again, there is no notation that these are continents. You seem to assume that they are because most of the list includes continental names. Clicking on Oceania brings up a list of countries within Oceania. Clicking on Australia brings up a page stating that "Australia, the world’s sixth largest country, occupies the smallest, flattest and driest continent." This seems to indicate that the source considers Australia a continent and Oceania a convenient shorthand for "the continent of Australia along with numerous Pacific islands". As for your unavailable online sources, I won't be able to say much about them. I did check the "World Atlas" link and it shows a very confused usage. In some places it uses the combined form Australia/Oceania and in others simply Oceania. --Khajidha (talk) 14:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Quick addition. I just clicked on the footnote for your UN source. That took me to a page concerning "Composition of macro geographical (continental) regions". This is fairly unambiguous usage of Oceania as a continent. There is still a slight possibility that continent is being suggested as a convenient shorthand for macro geographical region without it being seen as an exact synonym, but without a statement from the UN to that effect I see no reason to not accept this as a usage of Oceania as a continent. --Khajidha (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't see what the big deal is here. Doesn't Wikipedia have guidelines for statements/facts that are not agreed on by all sources. Isn't the answer, that some sources say it is a continent, some say it is not a continent, some use the word but do not say whether it is a continent or not. - Clearly the chunk of land that contains most of the country of Australia is a continent/continental landmass, what is considered part of this continent and what is not considered part of this continent are not agreed by everyone, and the proper name of the continent is not agreed on by everyone. Whether islands in the middle of the ocean are part of any continent is not agreed on by everyone. It's not hard to grasp. Same as the exact meaning/scope/coverage of the word itself "Oceania" is not agreed on by all sources, much of this is all ready mentioned in the article anyway. Carlwev (talk) 14:35, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
arf! I updated the links again...Also not sure why the reflist does not work correctly (#1 is not the times reference...)Adrien16 (talk) 17:22, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Oceania. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:03, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Oceania. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Main Articles[edit]

There are something like 70 main articles listed on this page, including six "Religion", six "Economy", and five "Culture" articles.

The obvious solution is to make new articles at pages like Culture of Oceania with content from the existing main articles. If people support this idea, I may try to do it on Wednesday or Thursday of this week. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:20, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I believe that "Oceana" includes islands in the Indian Ocean, such as the Kerguelen Islands, Mauritius, Réunion, and the Seychelles. Furthermore, from the point-of-view of the Olympic Games and others, Oceana includes the Falkland Islands, St. Helena, Ascension Island, the islands of the Caribbean Sea, the Bahamas, and Puerto Rico.47.215.180.7 (talk) 00:22, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Oceania. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:50, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Typo on the map[edit]

"Regions of Oceania" map. I think there is a typo, it says Kirabati instead of Kiribati. 188.240.101.132 (talk) 19:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Cruickshanks: can you change this and re-upload the map, please?-gadfium 20:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Apparently not - I have tried twice to upload a corrected file but the original spelling keeps showing. The changed spelling is clearly visible on the saved file on my computer, but when uploaded (after modifying, saving and uploading twice) the SVG file still shows old spelling, even after clearing cache and re-rendering page. I don't believe you would consider me to be a novice but I am bamboozled by what the problem is for what should be an ultra-easy task. Cruickshanks (talk) 10:50, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. The old image showed up for me too, even with a purge, but Ctrl-F5 (in Firefox) was enough to show the new one.-gadfium 17:15, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Jayapura and Papua island are in Oceania[edit]

Before the IP removes them again, please state their reason here. If they do it again, they may also want to remove or edit the maps of Oceania presented in the article. Because the maps do include Jayapura and Papua island. The article must not contradict itself in such a way. Thanks, Khestwol (talk) 19:15, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

"IP" means "Internet Protocol", or "Inspector Pilot", or "Initial Point". You can't just go around using initialisms and acronyms like "IP" without first explaining what they mean. 47.215.180.7 (talk) 23:56, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

"IP" is commonly used on Wikipedia talk pages, and almost always means a user identified only by their IP address. For example, you are editing from an IP account, User:47.215.180.7, so you would also be referred to as an IP. - BilCat (talk) 00:09, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
Explain first, not months later on, just like ITU means International Telecommunications Union.47.215.180.7 (talk) 00:17, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
It's used so often on Wikipedia talk pages that it is common knowledge, and needs no explanation. If someone doesn't know what it means, they can always ask politely, rather than lecturing. - BilCat (talk) 00:30, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Oceania. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:36, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Focus of map[edit]

The map focuses on the Australasian part of Oceania, omitting territories such as Hawaii and the Juan Fernández islands off Chile which are specifically mentioned in the text as being part of this continent. It would surely make more geographical - and linguistic - sense if the map centred on the Pacific, with Australasia off to the left. If this were an article on Australasia, that would be another matter. Oceania is essentially a oceanic continent, and I feel the map should reflect this.213.127.210.95 (talk) 16:04, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Australia (continent)[edit]

In the sense of "continent", "Australia" is just a confusing term for "Oceania", and I have never seen an atlas which excludes New Zealand from Oceania. Lojbanist remove cattle from stage 23:34, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose - English Wikipedia uses the 7-continent model in which Australia is a continent and Oceania is a region which includes most of the islands of the Pacific. - BilCat (talk) 23:55, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - As someone from Oceania but not Australia I can catagorically say that there is no support for the concept that Oceania is ever decribed as a continent. Oceania is the regional grouping of the Country and Continent of Australia plus the islands of the central/south Pacific. The same concepts exist in other groupings but the names are in those cases the same. Borneo is in Asia (grouping) but not part of Continental Asia. Japan same. Ireland is part of Europe, but not part of Continental Europe. Iceland and Madagasgar same (more questionable though because of distance). When it comes to the Pacific the distances from Australia are huge - New Zealand is thousands of km away from Australia, Fiji further, Tahiti even further, the distance to Hawai'i is extreme, in this case the name Oceania for the regional grouping is not the same as the continent (the smallest continent) within that grouping, Australia. The concepts are distinct and cannot be merged. Andrewgprout (talk) 04:34, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The model I was taught was that Australia was a continent, the islands of the Pacific (including NZ) are just islands (not part of any continent), and that Oceania was just a convenient grouping. --Khajidha (talk) 11:17, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Oceania is a region which is used to represent the cultural, and economic connections of several areas, which includes the islands in the area and New Zealand, which is on the (disputed) continent of Zealandia, not the Australian continent (also known as Sahul). Sahul is a major piece of land that is categorized as a continent. It is the continent of Papua New Guinea, Australia, and a part of Indonesia. They're not the same thing. - Emil Sayahi (talk) 21:02, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - You can might as well delete the articles of Asia and Europe, and merge them with Eurasia. Australia is a bona fide, geological continent in itself, just like the other six continents. Oceania, on the other hand, is more of a cultural and social constructed region, with no real or tangible borders, unlike the continent of Australia. Not to mention, the Australian continent has its own distinct wildlife and ecology. It will be a huge and uneducated loss in the geographical department of Wikipedia if the article were deleted/merged. Meganesia (talk) 14:26, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Off topic, but I could almost get behind the merging of Asia and Europe, as those are not "bona fide, geological continent[s]", but more "cultural and social constructed region[s]". --Khajidha (talk) 15:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - These are two separate things and deserve two separate articles. Australia is a continent and Oceania is a geographic region including the continent of Australia. Rreagan007 (talk) 04:01, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - per all above - reasoning explained in enough ways to show such an idea is basically wrong JarrahTree 04:03, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Two different topics that are notable in their own right. Volcanoguy 17:38, 12 April 2018 (UTC)