Talk:Onam

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Onam Introduction[edit]

In second line it says that Onam is a 'National Harvest Festival' of Kerala. It makes no sense as the word 'national' cant be used in this context, Kerala being state of India. Even on the official Kerala government page (http://www.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3700&Itemid=2753) it describes Onam as grand national harvest festival, but it doesn't specifically says national festival "of Kerala". So it should be replaced with 'harvest festival of Kerala'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek D sinha (talkcontribs) 08:03, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done --    L o g  X   14:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Image of Puli Kali and Boat Race[edit]

There is no image of "Puli Kali" and "Boat Race" which I think is required. We can replace one of the three Onappookkalam images with a "Puli Kali" and another one with Boat Race. -- Achyuth —Preceding undated comment added 11:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC).


Happy Onam![edit]

Taking out the "Critical Views" section. Critical views of anything including a festival should be discussed separately on separate pages and should not be used to distract from the main article. Please refrain from vandalising any article with a particular point of view whether critical or not. -- Abhijna

Also read the edit summaries before putting back the "Critical Views." -- Abhijna

Alternate Legend[edit]

In an alternate legend, it is believed by many Malayalees that during the Onam Parasurama visits Kerala.[1] Dr. Gundert defines in his Malayalam Dictionary, Onam, as the day that Parasurama recovered Kerala from the sea.[2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.228.162 (talk) 07:46, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, according to Puranas, Because, Parasurama recovered Kerala from the sea and his time was after the rule of Mahabali. Mahabali was in Kritha yuga, the first of four yugas. Parasurama was in Threthayuga, the second one. Then how can Mahabali rule Kerala which was recovered from sea after his period?. The rule of Mahabali in Kerala, Vamana sending him to Paathaala, and Mahabali's homecoming are all fabricated storys. Onam is really the birth day of Lord Vamana. The "Thrikkakkarayappan" we make, is actually the Lord Vamana of Thrikkakkara Temple. [3]

Image[edit]

The picture of Trivandrum Railaway Station Building on the Onam night is totally incongrous with the article. The modern day Onam celeberation can be better highlighted through a picture of a boat race. --K N Unni 11:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Dravidian civilizations[edit]

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Wiki Raja 10:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Onappookkalam[edit]

Amolnaik2k (talk) 07:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The Onappookkalam illustrated is indeed an Onappookkalam but not a "Typical" one. The basic rule is that it should be symmetrical. But the illustrated one has an image of the snake boat which is not "symmetrical" from all directions.

Do we need so many Pookalams?[edit]

We have 3 pookalam images and additional one showing children making one. We should keep the one with the children and remove 2 of the others. What do you guys think? Virtualage (talk) 13:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Accessibility[edit]

An Indian work colleague mentioned this to me today, so I came looking for further details. I haven't the time (as I'm still at work!) to read the article completely, or do any editing, but there needs to be more explanation for someone like me who knows nothing about this culture. In particular, the lede paragraph is devoid of any wikilinks, yet every non-English word is an unknown to me. -- Hymek (talk) 08:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Hindu festival[edit]

One of the very few sources we have for this article clearly states it is a national festival. If we need to elaborate what this means, please provide sources to do so. --Ronz (talk) 16:35, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

It is mentioned about Onam that it is a national festival kerala. It is celebrated by Keralites all over the world, irrespective of their religions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susan143341michael (talkcontribs) 15:09, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Are you proposing a change to the article? --Ronz (talk) 17:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 September 2013[edit]

I want to edit this because of a sentence that tells Mahabali as king of Malayalis. It is not like that. Bali coming to Earth was a boon given to that benevolent king of Earth by Lord Vishnu when he sent Bali as Emperor of Patala lokam. Hence, every year when Bali supposed to come to the Earth, that would be celebrated as Onam festival in Kerala.

123.201.225.177 (talk) 04:12, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Can you please provide a reliable source for this information? Given that we're discussing ancient stories, is there a possibility that there are multiple versions of the stories? --Ronz (talk) 17:17, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 September 2013[edit]

Onam is the national festival of Kerala. It is not a hindu festival. 115.112.151.66 (talk) 03:13, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

We've a source that says otherwise, and a discussion on the topic here. --Ronz (talk) 17:14, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 September 2013[edit]

196.15.16.104 (talk) 05:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC) It is a National Festival of Kerala, not specific to religion

See the above edit request. There has been discussion on the topic and sources provided to show otherwise. If you wish to start a new discussion on the topic, you need to provide reliable sources that support your assertion, and you don't need to use the "editsemiprotected" template. Dana boomer (talk) 11:15, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


The reason that Onam may be called a 'Religious festival' by many, is mostly due to its roots, which come from the Hindu mythological story of King Mahabali . However, for sometime, Onam has evolved into one that is celebrated by people across all religions in Kerala. One of the sources I can cite for this is here : [4]. Note the statement that "Of late, it has evolved into a national festival of all the Malayalees, irrespective of their religious affiliation."

Another reference I cite for this is the official Kerala government website (though I have noted a few errors on this page too). [5] . Here, Onam is not referred to as a religious festival, but Vishu, Deepavali, and Mahashivrathri are called so. Also, note the statement "The Mahasivarathri is essentially a religious festival unlike the Onam and Thiruvathira".

Often, it is the case that festivals originating from one religion, are later adopted by celebrated by people across differing faiths. The same goes for many fests such as Christmas , which is a very widespread festival celebrated by people of several faiths. However, (to quote another article of this type) I note that the article on Christmas does not specify it as being a 'Christian' festival, though it does mention it is of 'Christian' type, and celebrated by many non-Christians.

I propose that we modify the article to read that so: "Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is the most popular festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India.[1] It derives its roots from the Hindu mythology of King Mahabali. It is also the Harvest festival of Kerala with State holidays on ..." ... (rest of the article)

I will post more references if I can find them.

Harivishnu (talk) 04:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this.
From what you've provided so far, we have alternative descriptions rather than justification for removing the current description. The reviewed book would likely provide the information we need to resolve this. --Ronz (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Onam is a Hindu festival[edit]

Some of the editors seem to object with the WP:LEAD which describes Onam as a Hindu festival. The only reason for such objection is that Onam is also celebrated by a good section of the non-Hindus in Kerala. Chirstmas, for example, is also celebrated by a lot of non-Christians, but that does not prevent us from terming Christmas as a Christian festival. Onam commemorates a piece of mythology which do not find acceptance among the non-Hindus of Kerala.

Onam by virtue of it is a Hindu festival, which is also celebrated by a good section of keralite non-Hindus. Snowcream (talk) 19:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2014[edit]

Please change 'Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a Hindu festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India.[1]' to 'Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a festival celebrated by the people of Kerala, India.[1]'.......Onam is not seen as a religious fest in Kerala.It is the festival of all keralites who live all around the globe.So please have the mind to change. Reshnurajrs (talk) 08:11, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

We've sources that say otherwise. Please see the previous discussions. --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Onam is essentially a Hindu festival. It's based on events articulated in Hindu scriptures and mythology. It's date is arrived on using Malayalam calendar, which is a Hindu calendar. Yes, It is celebrated by a good number of non-Hindus in Kerala. However, that doesn't take away from Onam it's innate quality of being a Hindu festival. To satisfy WP's standards, we also have verifiable citations from reliable sources to that regard. Snowcream (talk) 09:50, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. - Arjayay (talk) 16:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2015[edit]

"Hindu festival" is wrong it is festival of all religion in Kerala

182.74.243.98 (talk) 17:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done as the article clearly states it is "a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India. It is also the state festival of Kerala" Looking at the history, it clearly started as a Hindu festival before becoming celebrated by everyone. - Arjayay (talk) 17:58, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2015[edit]

I would like to change below sentence QUOTE: Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India.[ UNQUOTE:

Onam is the official festival of Kerala for all Keralites or Malayalees. It is not a HINDU festival. It is a festival celebrated by all Malayalees alike be it Hindus, Muslims or Christians.

Please do not bring a religious version to it.

Please find below my addition from http://www.onamfestival.org/onam-in-kerala.html QUOTE: Onam in Kerala:

Onam is the biggest festival of Kerala. But, there is a lot more to Onam than being just a festival. Onam reflects the faith of the people of Kerala A belief in their legendary past, religion and power of worship. It shows the high spirit of the people who go out of the way to celebrate the festival in the prescribed manner and a grand fashion.

Best of Season and Weather Onam is also a harvest festival. It is celebrated at a time when everything appears so nice and good. The beautiful landscape of Kerala can be seen in its full radiance at this time of the Malayalam New Year. Weather, it seems, also seeks to be a part of the festival. It contributes by becoming pleasantly warm and sunny. Fields look brilliant with a bountiful harvest. Farmers feel on top of the world as they watch the result of their hard labour with pride.

Children's Joy and Homecoming Children eagerly wait for the arrival of the carnival. Why shouldn't they. It is time for them to get new clothes, toys and everything else they asked for or thought of. Numerous uncles, aunts and grandmas grace their wishes with delight. It is also a time for homecoming for people staying away from the families. Their arrival multiples the joy of the festival several folds.

Welcoming a Very Special Visitor Onam awaits one very special visitor, Kerala's most loved legendary King Maveli. He is the King who once gave the people a golden era in Kerala. The King is so much attached to his kingdom that it is believed that he comes annually from the nether world to see his people living happily. It is in honour of King Mahabali, affectionately called Onathappan, that Onam is celebrated.

Womenfolk make special arrangements to welcome Onathappan. Flower carpets are laid in the front courtyards with dedication and full sincerity. A grand meal is prepared on the day of Thiru Onam. It is on this day that Maveli's spirit visits Kerala. Lip smacking meal consists of best of Kerala cuisine including avial, sambhar, rasam, parippu and the payasam.

Cultural Extravaganza One of the most marvelous facets of Onam is the unfolding of its rich and well-established culture. We see not just glimpses but a whole gamut of it in the ten-day-long carnival. Pulikali, Kaikottikali, Kummattikalli, Kathakali, Thumbi Thullal besides several other folk arts and traditions can be seen on one platform called Onam.

Of Unity and Team Spirit The beauty of the festival lies in it's secular fabric. People of all religions, castes and communities celebrate the festival with equal joy and verve. Onam also helps to create an atmosphere of peace and brotherhood by way of various team sports organised on the day.

Onam is the passion of the people of Kerala. And, pride of India!

UNQUOTE:

Vibin Varghese

Vibintoms (talk) 16:04, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done - as you yourself have admitted it is from http://www.onamfestival.org/onam-in-kerala.html - so to use it, would be a blatant copyright violation. - Arjayay (talk) 16:11, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2015[edit]

Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a Hindu festival celebrated in Kerala, India.

Please change the above sentence with "Onam (Malayalam: ഓണം) is a festival celebrated in Kerala, India."

Reason: Onam is not at all a religious festival. It is the harvest festival celebrated by all the religious people in kerala. Sanoopktm (talk) 18:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Verifiable Reliable Sources say the Onam is a Hindu festival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowcream (talkcontribs)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2015[edit]

ONAM is a not Hindu festival . It is the festival celebrating all people in Kerala State. The story happening in before Christ . Those days there is no religion in India.

Please remove the work 'Hindu festival' from the article.

Bijuneel (talk) 18:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Verifiable Reliable Sources say the Onam is a Hindu festival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowcream (talkcontribs)

August 30 2016[edit]

Happy advanced wishes of Onam. 1) I would like to ask if we can move the 10 days of Onam into a separate section as it demands more importance on its own .Currently the ten days of Onam are grouped with the section : Rituals. It would be great if the ten days are mentioned before this section and we can try to add more information for the days. 2) Also in the infobox I think it will be better if we mention that it is the 'Thiruvonam' date which is mentioned since Onam lasts for 10 days + 2. Making the section 'Days of Onam' can also solve this.

Jibinmathews (talk) 14:08, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Hindu[edit]

Hope these two edits [1] will give other Wikipedia editors some idea about the word Hindu and how it is wrongly used by so many ignorant people. Hindu is a Persian word. One has to look at how and when this non-Indian word was used for the first time in various regions of modern-day India. In the article Onam, the use of the word Hindu in historical context is terribly wrong and misplaced. We can see such wrong usages on many websites including Wikipedia. Another point is that there are many fictional stories. One story tells that Mahabali had ruled Kerala and another story tells that Kerala was created by Parasurama. The funny thing is that, as per those stories, Mahabali had lived before the period of Parasurama because Vamana who had sent Mahabali to the netherworld was the fifth avathar of Vishnu and Parasurama who had created Kerala was the sixth avathar of Vishnu. Then, how could Kerala be ruled by Mahabali before it was created by Parasurama? Even those fictional stories are conflicting with one another and anyone can interpret them as s/he wants. Instead of relying heavily on those conflicting fictional stories, we should look at the historical facts. Onam is a very ancient rice harvest festival, it is not a religious festival, but some people try to hijack it and want to project it as their own religious festival and even use Wikipedia to achieve their goal.42.109.203.204 (talk) 08:41, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

That is your POV. First of all, it doesn't matter what the etymology of the word 'Hindu' is, even the word 'India' is not of Indic origin. There are umpteen sources provided on the page which clearly says that it is a "Hindu festival", as per your POV(point of view) it is not, it does not mean you would push your POV on Wikipedia. A festival can be both related to harvest and Hindu culture, they are not mutually exclusive. As far as your bone with mythology is concerned, that is again your POV and doubt, you can not push your doubts and POVs on the page. Onam is a "Hindu festival" also a harvest festival, it is an established FACT, backed by reliable sources on the page, you are actually attempting to hijack the page to push your POV. Shimlaites (talk) 12:49, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


We have to check whether Onam is a religious festival or not.

GOVERNMENT OF KERALA: [2]

ONAM - The National Festival of Kerala: Whatever be the truth behind this legend, Onam has for last several centuries been a grand national harvest festival in which all sections of the people participate with extreme jubilation. It is mentioned as a national harvest festival. It is not mentioned as a Hindu festival.

MAHA SHIVARATHRI - The Mahasivarathri is essentially a religious festival unlike the Onam. Here it clearly states that Onam is not a religious festival.

When the Official Web Portal of the Government of Kerala states that Onam is not a religious festival, projecting it as a religious festival is wrong and misleading. We have to make necessary changes to this article.42.109.139.154 (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Does Govt of Kerala own 'Onam'? No. Is it state government festival? No. Its a communal festival, celebrated by common people of Kerala. It is a Hindu festival, celebrated around the time of rice harvest season in the state. Again, kindly read so many reliable sources from reputed publications and platforms, cited on the page, which call it a "HINDU FESTIVAL". BTW, the source which you have cited also associates Onam with the Hindu legend. Shimlaites (talk) 14:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
We have to check whether Onam is a religious festival or not. No we don't. If reliable sources say one way or another, we need to consider them. If we have reliable sources for multiple viewpoints, then we need to decide which to present and in what level of detail.
Scholarly, historical sources are preferred in situations like this. --Ronz (talk) 16:12, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
It's just the author's POV that Onam shouldn't be called Hindu because the word is loaded owing to its Persian origin. Would you dare say the millions of people who call themselves Hindu in India are not Hindu because Hindu is a Persian word disconnected to their religion. I am just throwing you an analogy. I moreover find citations from reliable sources for the Hindu assertion. That does it for wikipedia. Snowcream (talk) 18:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ P. 253 Some South Indian Villages By Gilbert Slater
  2. ^ P. 47 Folk-lore Published 1960, Indian Publications
  3. ^ Bhagavatha Maha Purana
  4. ^ http://www.thehindu.com/books/onam-and-its-backdrops/article2635539.ece
  5. ^ http://www.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3700&Itemid=2753

unsourced sections and OR[edit]

I am removing much blog-like personal essay such as the large section on "Ten Days of Onam Celebrations" (some of it is copied from a SCFI website, but that is either WP:Copyvio or WP:Circular, and wrong either way). The few sources cited do not verify the paragraphs. It would be nice if someone can find scholarly reliable source(s) and rewrite these sections using those WP:RS with NPOV. A discussion of concerns or comments are welcome, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:26, 2 March 2017 (UTC)