Talk:Operation Vistula

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External links modified[edit]

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Category:Crimes of the Communist regime in Ukraine against Ukrainians[edit]

So Poland is Ukraine?Xx236 (talk) 06:28, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Edit request: UN Charter on the right of self-determination[edit]

During Operation Vistula conditions of the United Nations Charter of June 26, 1945 on the right of self-determination and international laws have been respected.

UN Charter[1] contains zero "conditions" on the right of "self-determination". "Self-determination" is mentionted in Charter only once - in Article 1 of Chapter I Purposes and Principles - among the list of The Purposes of the United Nations. Thus assesment of 'conditions ... respected' is logically void. Please feel free to correct me.

Abundant similarly constructed statements on historical subject in Russian gave me no doubt about their intentions. That's rhethoric of history whitewashing meaned to manipulate nations in order to obtain political points. Could not help but project Russian experience here. Let me assure you that rhethoric originate complains - not the following passage on compensations from Polish government.

My request is either deletion of aforementioned sentence or rephrasing it. Maybe "international laws have been respected" and it's just UN Charter which has nothing to do with that. Maybe that's typo and Atlantic Charter was meant. I'd like feedback from Poeticbent who seems to perform keeper duties at this article before editing it myself. 93.73.62.38 (talk) 14:27, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Removed sentence in question. 93.73.62.38 (talk) 21:34, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
  • It would have been easier if you pinged me, and waited a bit, which you did not do. Please go back to source, and refrain from original research. Here's the quote from page vii (or 2/4 in PDF) of "Operacja Wisła" by Dr Zbigniew Palski:

Argumentacja tej grupy historyków obejmuje także ocenę operacji „Wisła” z punktu widzenia prawa międzynarodowego, zwłaszcza w Świetle Karty Narodów Zjednoczonych z 26 czerwca 1945 r., która uznała prawo narodów do samostanowienia. Ze strony Ukraińców mieszkających w Polsce nie doszło do spełnienia ani jednego z trzech warunków:

  1. walki przeciwko panowaniu kolonialnemu;
  2. walki przeciwko obcej okupacji;
  3. walki z reżimem rasistowskim,
aby działania podziemia ukraińskiego na terytorium Polski można było zaliczyć do kategorii walk narodowowyzwoleńczych. Obowiązywało zatem polskie prawo wewnętrzne. Należy podkreślić iż część obywateli polskich narodowości ukraińskiej naruszyła obowiązek lojalności wobec państwa, w którym zamieszkiwali.

Poeticbent talk 23:17, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the link to Charter. I'm not sure which article is being quoted. I suppose, the Soviet Union as Member state of the United Nations – which incidentally was also in charge of the "Operation West" – must have claimed maintenance of international peace and security, or something like that. Poeticbent talk 00:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
The projected aim was the internal security of Poland, which was not an "occupying force" on its own postwar territory:

Władze państwowe musiały zapobiec próbom dezintegracji terytorialnej. Nie miało wiec żadnego znaczenia, czy były to władze komunistyczne, czy jakiekolwiek inne. Warto przytoczyć słowa prof. Andrzeja Paczkowskiego: „Myślę, że gdyby premierem był Sławoj-Składkowski, a nie Osóbka-Morawski, podobna operacja w podobnym stylu również zostałaby przeprowadzona. Chodziło wiec raczej o interes narodowy, nie zaś o interes komunistów polskich”. W podobnym duchu wypowiada się znany pisarz Włodzimierz Odojewski, którego także trudno posądzić o sympatię do komunizmu: „Była [operacja »Wisła«] reakcją na próbę stworzenia przez resztki UPA na terenie kilku powiatów ogłoszonej tam »Peremyskiej Ukrainy«;[9] rozmontowania polskiej administracji, przejmowania władzy (...). Już widzę reakcję Francji na przykład na próbę oderwania przez grupę partyzantów-terrorystów Prowansji albo Bretanii”. I dalej: „Akcja była decyzją obronną, chroniącą terytorium tamtej Polski, niesuwerennej, poddanej ścisłej kontroli sowieckiej, ale jednak Polski. Powiaty, na których Akcja »Wisła« miała miejsce, nie były [przecież] terenem przez Polskę´ okupowanym” — Dr Zbigniew Palski

Poeticbent talk 00:40, 29 December 2016 (UTC)