Talk:Organ pipe

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WikiProject Pipe Organ (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
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Proposed Merge[edit]

Not sure if the proposed merge is a good idea, simply because it might make the Pipe Organ article a bit too lengthy. Madder 20:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but is there anything here that isn't said in Pipe organ - is this just a poor summary of what is there? Also I have had been looking at Organ stop and I am not convinced that that article is any better. What do you think? Mdcollins1984 13:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I think both of these articles are articles in their own right. They are long enough and detailed enough to warrant being separate articles. Furthermore, pipe organ is already a very long article, and merging these two articles into it would make it far too big and difficult to manage. Madder 14:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Variations in timbre[edit]

I believe there is a better way to present the information in the "Variation in timbre" section. Currently, it is simply an outline, but I think it would be nicer to have it written out, possibly with a little more information about each point. For example, instead of just saying "Tin" or "Wood," explain how the sound differs with each, etc.

Also, it would be nice to have some more (or simply better) pictures of individual pipes. www.organstops.org has a collection of some great pictures of individual pipes...

I'll work a little on this when I've got some more time. I don't believe this article needs to be merged with another, but it could use some work.

)

- Matthew (SuperOctave) 26 November 2006

I have attempted to address this concern. The Variations in timbre section is now in prose form. However, as may be gleaned from reading the section, I do not possess the expertise necessary to do this information justice. Furthermore, I would raise the question of whether the section should be scrapped altogether, and the relevant subsections moved into Flue pipe and Reed pipe... what does everybody else think? —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 14:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I got bold and did all that (and a bit more) without anybody saying anything. If there's a good reason to revert, please do. —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 22:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit[edit]

I've just tidied this some more, no reason to revert! Either the subsections of variations of timbre (what a horrible section title...) could be expanded on in flue/reed pipe, or they can be brought together here. Not sure really! –MDCollins (talk) 00:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

A quick update: Variations in timbre was moved to Flue pipe and Reed pipe, cleaned up, and renamed "Tonal characteristics," which makes more sense, though there may be a better name still for that section. This article received a short "Pitch" section define organ pitch terminology, which is used in the article. It doesn't really fit anywhere, though… what can we do about this? Should there be a short Organ pitch stub to which we link from all the articles that require this terminology? —Cor anglais 16 15:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Open and closed pipes[edit]

I've removed a sentence that purports to explain why the pitch of a closed pipe is an octave lower than that of an open pipe. The explanation doesn't stand up to a physicist's scrutiny; I'm happy to engage in a more detailed discussion. The pitch change seems more profound than the change in timbre, so I've moved that sentence into the lead. A similar change now appears in the flue pipe article. --Ernst Grundke (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Both are profound effects, to the point that some pipe organs have a division of gedacht-work consisting of stopped pipes.
There are two reasons for stopping a flue pipe. The affect on the tone (removing some partials completely and greatly emphasizing the fundamental) is the more common and perhaps important.
The saving in material and space, and therefore cost, is however critical in some instances, particularly at 16' and greater. The purists would say that this is unfortunate and (in my experience) wish to suppress all discussion of such considerations, both here and on the various music committees on which they sit (as have I on occasions). I would guess that no purist has ever successfully funded a major pipe organ, not that my POV is any more citeable than theirs (I have seen them try). End of sermon. Andrewa (talk) 16:40, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

This appears to be the edit in question.

Agree that the removed folk-physics was inaccurate and misleading, but I can see what the writer was trying to say. It's the wave that travels travels both up and down the body of the pipe, doubling the length of the column, not the wind itself. But the up and down is a good concept.

An even better way of describing it is of course in terms of nodes and antinodes. This is what Helmholtz does in Sensations of Tone, from memory. It also explains the rohrflote (aka chimney flute... those redlinks need fixing) and similar stops.

Both helpful concepts could I'm sure be sourced, and belong in our article space somewhere, probably in the flue pipe article mainly. Andrewa (talk) 20:56, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Pitch and Length[edit]

When a pipe is referred to a 8' etc. the length is to the top end of the pipe; but from what point? ie where do we measure eight feet from? Is it from the lip, or from the very lowest end, or some other point? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:46, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Flue pipe cross section.png
It's generally a rank which is referred to as 8', rather than an individual pipe, but that 8' name is based on the length of a low C pipe in an open flue pipe rank of similar pitch, that's true, and what our article says.
Wilhelmy American Flag Glass Pipe Organ.jpg
It's measured from the languid or lanquet (3 at left), approximately. The sounding length does not include the foot (5 at left), as the rank at right shows. Adjacent pipes in some ranks have feet of the same length, like this one, in others the foot lengths vary in proportion to the sounding length, but this affects the tone rather than the pitch. Similarly, adjacent pipes in some ranks vary in diameter, others do not, or not prominently. But all vary in sounding length.
Our current articles do not say this at all well. Not quite sure how to source and fix it, but as a general encyclopedia it's just the sort of thing that we should try to make clear and accessible to the non-specialist. Andrewa (talk) 21:09, 13 April 2017 (UTC)