Talk:Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Organizations (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Organizations. If you would like to participate please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject International relations (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia.
If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Caribbean (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 

Does the OECS handle disasters?[edit]

In the intro of the article there's the mention of the OECS handeling hurricane distasters. My question is does the OECS do this for certain? I thought that disasters in the OECS were left up to the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Response Agency (CEDERA) -- And that was say- if the issue was like weather related, or else; the Regional Security System (RSS) -- www.rss.org.bb if it required something like military colaboration? between either Barbados or the OECS states? CaribDigita 15:39, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi CaribDigita! I believe you are correct. I will double-check with a friend who works for NEMO in St Lucia, but certainly from my understanding and a quick check on the OECS website they do not have a unit responsible for either disaster preparedness or response. My feeling is that, unless anyone objects with proof to the contrary, the article should be amended accordingly. Best regards. Vivenot 17:43, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Vivenot, I suspect that contribution may have been about perhaps when (Hurricane) "Ivan the Terrible" hit Grenada. That's my thought-, I'm thinking then-- perhaps there was some colaberation with the OECS because ofcourse all communications to/from Grenada were down, the island had no way to pay it's debts and the economy of the whole island actually froze the day after. It was a bad-bad-bad situation where some functions of Grenada had to be moved offshore. A few different OECS(and Caribbean islands) said they would step in to help cover Grenada's international obligations for a little while, etc. But I could be wrong, about the diaster thing, but I didn't think the OECS Secretariat got involved in every disaster situation. Outside of what- say any other NGO would do in wanting to help.

P.S. Please tell your friend about Wikipedia if they don't know about it. Tell them how addictive it is... :-) It would greatly put my mind to great ease also if they could perhaps look over the CDERA article to make sure it's relivent and perhaps said everything that it should. You know- tell them to snag themselves a Wiki-ID and feel free to add more if they wish. :-) CaribDigita 20:46, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

doingbusiness.org link[edit]

This link: Doing Business 2007: OECS Countries World Bank Group study

Was added by an IP address registered to the World Bank Group (doingbusiness.org is a World Bank Group domain). In keeping with our conflict of interest and external links guidelines I've moved it here for consideration by regular editors of this article who are unaffiliated with the site. -- Siobhan Hansa 13:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Martinique acceding associate member[edit]

Since Martinique will become an associate member of the OECS tomorrow, the comparison table (and maps) will need to be changed. I managed to do the necessary changes to the table in preparation for the accession, but the only sticking points are the GDP (PPP) and GDP (PPP) per capita for Martinique as I have only been able to find the nominal GDP and GDP per capita rather than the PPP GDP and PPP GDP per capita:

Highest
Lowest
State Associate
Flag State
Joined
Population
km²
GDP (PPP)
$Million

GDP (PPP)
per capita

[1]
HDI
New 2013 [2]
Currency
Official
Language(s)
Antigua and Barbuda Antigua and Barbuda 18 June 1981 86,295 442.6 1,709 $20,977 Decrease 0.760 East Caribbean Dollar English
Dominica Dominica 18 June 1981 72,660 751 952 $13,102 Increase 0.745 East Caribbean Dollar English
Grenada Grenada 18 June 1981 110,000 344 1,142 $11,498 Increase 0.770 East Caribbean Dollar English
Montserrat Montserrat 18 June 1981 5,879 102 99 $8,500 Increase 0.821 East Caribbean Dollar English
Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Kitts and Nevis 18 June 1981 51,300 261 892 $20,929 Steady 0.745 East Caribbean Dollar English
Saint Lucia Saint Lucia 18 June 1981 173,765 606 2,071 $10,560 Decrease 0.725 East Caribbean Dollar English
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Saint Vincent and
the Grenadines
18 June 1981 120,000 389 1,237 $10,663 Increase 0.733 East Caribbean Dollar English
British Virgin Islands British Virgin Islands 22 November 1984 29,537 151 853 $42,300 Increase 0.945 United States dollar English
Anguilla Anguilla 1995 13,452 96 108 $8,800 Increase 0.865 East Caribbean dollar English
Martinique Martinique 4 February 2015 386,486 1,128 10,700 $27,688 0.904 Euro French
  1. ^ "World Bank". 8 July 2014. 
  2. ^ "International Human Development Indicators". Human Development Report 2013, The Rise of the South: Human Progress in a Diverse World. United Nations Development Programme. Retrieved 23 March 2013. 

Anybody know what the PPP figures are for Martinique? 72.27.159.186 10:37 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Martinique is not an independent country so you wouldn't have stats separate of the Republic of France. Martinique has representatives and all within the French Parliament. Unlike British territories which don't have representatives in the British House of Commons. CaribDigita (talk) 20:09, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Martinique's status[edit]

Something seems inconsistent about Martinique's supposed accession to the OECS. I wish to air my concerns and invite feedback before making changes to the article which might cause disputes. Two key points are particulary glaring to me:

1) Contrary to the official announcement of Martinique's joining the OECS, Martinique is not simply a French territory. Martinique is an overseas department of France that has equal political status of all parts of European France. As such, there are different rules which apply to Martinique's joining an international organisation as opposed to if it was a true self-governing dependent territory.

2) Martinique is not listed on the OECS' list of member and observer states, now nearly a year after the accession papers were signed in Febuary 2015. Wouldn't the organisation want to make clear on their website such an addition to their ranks?

I do not doubt that something was signed on 5 February 2015 between the President of the Regional Council of Martinique and the authorized parties of the OECS. I am only questioning the real effect of those documents. Are they stuck in legal limbo pending approval by the French national government? Is it all effectively symbolic in nature, the signatories aware from the start of the overruling power of France's sovereignty? Or is it a placeholder agreement should Martinique's pro-autonomy leadership decide to hold a referendum to formally change the department's status within the French Republic? Either way, I feel this & other related articles' inclusion of Martinique as an observer of the OECS deserves some reassessment. Farolif (talk) 00:33, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

According to OECS this "Martinique submitted a formal application for associate membership in the OECS with the full support/endorsement of the French Government." My guess is they just haven't updated their website. TDL (talk) 01:01, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
"full support/endorsement", but what about actual approval? It wouldn't be the first time a politician has supplied a little lip service in order to avoid ruffling any feathers. Farolif (talk) 01:25, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
ADD - "they just haven't updated their website" If this was the government of a struggling microstate whose official websites have been known to fall into disrepair and become miserably outdated (I can name a few examples), then I would allow that excuse. However, the OECS is a properly functioning association whose site is regularly updated with new material. A significant detail such as gaining a new member should have been included without much delay after the fact. Farolif (talk) 01:13, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Lip service wouldn't really qualify as "full support". Endorsement is just a synonym of approval, so I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to draw. An agreement was reached between the OECS and the Government of France on Martinique's participation. You can see it published by the Government of France here: [1]. What other approval were you expecting? TDL (talk) 05:23, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
That documentation looks like nothing more than (again) an acknowledgement that the documents were signed by the involved parties, but not whether they were implemented. To be more clear, what I feel is missing out of all of this is an explanation for why this agreement does not need to be countersigned, if not followed up with a separate resolution entirely, by the national-level government of France. I do not otherwise know of any precedent for the Regional Council of a French region having binding authority to bring an accession such as this into force. Farolif (talk) 01:13, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
This is all speculation and WP:original research. You are speculating that Serge Letchimy signed the document in his role as a President of the Regional Council of Martinique rather than in his role as a member of the National Assembly (France) representing the French government. You are speculating that there are binding provisions in the agreement. You are speculating that it hasn't been approved by the French government. TDL (talk) 16:50, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
This is not speculation. None of the cited sources refer to Letchimy's dual role as a National Assembly member - which would still not necessarily give him authority to fully implement this accession. Furthermore, the OECS Director General is cited in his acknowledgement of the "limitations" to Martinique's involvement due to its political status. Farolif (talk) 17:12, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I didn't ask how he was referred to in a press release. I asked what role he signed the treaty in. You are just guessing on that. Yes he'd still need authorization from the French government to sign it, but you're just guessing that he didn't get it. And yes, no one is disputing that Martinique has limitations and couldn't become a full member. I'm not sure what your point is.
There are many many sources which say it is an associate member. An out of date list does not disprove them. For example, here is a quote from Didacus Jules, Director General of OECS: "We are fortunate that Martinique is now an Associate Member of the OECS". Is the director of the organization wrong? A few other sources on the first Google page: [2][3][4][5] TDL (talk) 17:42, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Those sources are questionable because yet again they refer to "France Territory" which isn't actually the status of Martinique. I'm almost certain that France is in charge of Martinique's Foreign Affairs. CaribDigita (talk) 01:22, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Who said France wasn't in charge of Martinique's Foreign Affairs? I don't think that's in dispute. The only thing in dispute is whether Martinique is an Associate Member or not. The source above, published by the OECS Commission, quotes Didacus Jules, the Director General of OECS, as saying "We are fortunate that Martinique is now an Associate Member of the OECS". Do you think this is a questionable source? TDL (talk) 02:15, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
This is likely less a question of whether the director of the organisation was speaking incorrectly, and more of an opting for expediency rather than delving into the legal details of Martinique's association with the OECS - particularly in the press releases & business journal interviews which you have chosen as your evidence.
You also continue to casually write off the failure of the OECS site to list Martinique as one of its member states as simply being a result of the site not being updated (despite no indication that any other part of the site is not adequately maintained). Are you going to fall back on that excuse for these other sources not including Martinique as an OECS member?
OECS LinkedIn account
Eastern Caribbean Central Bank
CARICOM (which you use as one of your own sources...)
Coalition for the International Criminal Court
European Union
It seems that several major international bodies that ought to care about keeping details such as this up to date have not made this change to their official sites nearly a year after the supposed accession. What does that tell you? Farolif (talk) 06:10, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
The membership I question whether it would be "Martinique" or as "the Republic of France" as Martinique is completely integrated into France as an outer region of France. The OECS' understanding of that may be limited as the same equivalency doesn't exist in the British West Indies. But I guess that would be like saying Barbuda was a member of something while Antigua was not. Or Tobago joined something and Trinidad did not. CaribDigita (talk) 16:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Well, Martinique is already independently an associate member of the Association of Caribbean States (unlike French Guiana, for example, which is a member via France), so the precedent has already been set that it's possible. See: [6][7]. TDL (talk) 00:56, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
It tells me that your can't find any direct evidence to support your argument, so you're forced to rely on an absence of evidence based argument around which you've attempted to build a circumstantial case. Surely if Martinique did not become an Associate in February, as was widely reported, someone, somewhere would have reported that?
To conclude that it is an associate member we do not need every website on the internet be updated, we just need several wp:reliable sources to confirm that fact. The internet is littered with out of date websites. We have the most reliable of sources on the matter, the OECS, confirming it on more than one occasion, and no sources which refute it. I have a hard time believing that Jules was in too much of a hurry to speak of Martinique's associate membership in the future tense. It would have taken no more effort to be accurate.
I'm not casually writing off the out of date website, I sent an email to the OECS asking about it, and they responded that it was under construction and that they were working on rectifying the members page to accurately reflect the membership. TDL (talk) 00:56, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 6 external links on Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 09:47, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 17:20, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 06:25, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:06, 16 July 2016 (UTC)