Talk:Out-of-body experience

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Unanimity of source[edit]

"Science considers the OBE a type of hallucination that can be caused by various neurological and psychological factors."

This statement, in Wikipedia' voice, claims that Science (presumably meaning scientific consensus) considers OBEs to be hallucinations. While I'm sure it's possible to find four (skeptical) sources that support such a view, is this really the scientific consensus? I'm skeptical.- MrX 20:16, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm adding some sources that should bear on how the lead is worded.

- MrX 20:43, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

An out-of-body experience (OBE) is a unique dissociative event in which the person feels separated from his/her body.

Joseph Meyerson and Marc Gelkopf, "Therapeutic Utilization of Spontaneous Out-of-Body Experiences in Hypnotherapy," American Journal of Psychotherapy 58, no. 1 (2004), http://www.questia.com/read/1P3-623520141.

If there is "something more" to OBEs and other anomalous experiences than can be understood naturalistically, such possibilities must be addressed by a different kind of study than we have considered here. (7) More rigorous studies of this latter sort with the controlled experimental. manipulations and observations of the alleged veridicality of OBEs am required. Relevant studies am currently underway, though positive results have, to my knowledge, yet to be reported.

James Allan Cheyne, "When Is an OBE Not an OBE? A New Look at Out-of-Body Experiences," Skeptic (Altadena, CA), Fall 2008, http://www.questia.com/read/1G1-190099336.

To date only few scientific investigations have been carried out on out of body experiences, probably because they generally occur spontaneously, are of short duration, and happen only once or twice in a lifetime.... The reviewed evidence from neurological patients experiencing this striking dissociation between self and body shows that out of body experiences are culturally invariant phenomena that can be investigated scientifically.

Out Of Body Experiences And Their Neural Basis: They Are Linked To Multisensory And Cognitive Processing In The Brain, Olaf Blanke, BMJ: British Medical Journal, Vol. 329, No. 7480 (Dec. 18 - 25, 2004), pp. 1414-1415, Published by: BMJ, Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/25469629

OBEs can be induced by drugs or brain stimulation - we are looking at a psychological phenomena here, they are hallucinations. Nothing paranormal is going on. Yes, dissociation is part of the OBE experience, this is purely a psychological phenomena. It is all in the brain, nothing is leaving the body. The scientific consensus from the 1980s has been that OBEs are hallucinations. I don't get your comment about four skeptical sources. The majority of scientific papers on OBEs conclude they are hallucinations (I can list you hundreds going back about thirty years or more). Here's some recent publications which conclude this:

  • Parra, Alejandro. (2009). Out-of-Body Experiences and Hallucinatory Experiences: A Psychological Approach. Journal: Imagination, Cognition and Personality , vol. 29, no. 3, pp. 211-223.
  • Blanke, O; Ortigue, S; Landis, T; Seeck, M. (2002). Stimulating illusory own-body peceptions. Nature 419: 269-270.
  • Blanke, O; Landis, T; Seeck, M. (2004). Out-of-body experience and autoscopy of neurological origin. Brain 127: 243-258.
  • Blanke, O; Mohr, C. (2005). Out-of-body experience, heautoscopy, and autoscopic hallucination of neurological origin. Implications for mechanisms of corporeal awareness and self consciousness. Brain Research Reviews 50: 184-199.
  • Brugger, P. (2002). Reflective mirrors: Perspective-taking in autoscopic phenomena. Cognitive Neuropsychiatry 7: 179-194.
  • Cheyne, J. A; Girard, T. A. (2009). The body unbound: vestibular-motor hallucination and out of body experiences. Cortex 45: 201-215.
  • Jason J. Braithwaite, Dana Samson, Ian Apperly, Emma Broglia, Johan Hulleman. (2011). Cognitive correlates of the spontaneous out-of-body experience (OBE) in the psychologically normal population: Evidence for an increased role of temporal-lobe instability, body-distortion processing, and impairments in own-body transformations. Cortex 47: 839-853.

And all three sources you quote mine above claim the OBE is a hallucination (did you read all of those papers?, especially the Blanke one), so I am not sure what you are skeptical of. It seems to me your issue might be a semantics issue or you are confused about what the OBE is, but I don't have a problem with how you have worded the lead. They are dissociative experiences, yes. Goblin Face (talk) 01:08, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I did read several of the papers, and none make such a conclusive statement as you have. It is somewhat of a semantics issue. "Dissociative experience" is more precise (and encyclopedic) than hallucination. They're not interchangeable words. Let's also not conflate research which has created OBE-like hallucinations in a laboratory with the idea that all OBEs are hallucinations. - MrX 02:49, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • What do you expect? This is Wikipedia. The preferred method is to silence dissent with anything at all to do with science of any kind. They have a decidedly overly-left-wing view on certain things. Evidently OBE is one. The most obvious example of extreme dissent suppression is AGW. Give it up, you won't get past the Wiki censors. Which is why competing wikis have been built, and why Wikipedia is generally acknowledged as not a definitive source at all, on any subject at all --- but rather just one of many starting points on researching subjects you may be interested in. 10stone5 (talk) 17:55, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
That's not been my experience. Those who make the most reasoned arguments, grounded in policy, are the ones who are able to influence consensus. You will notice that the wording that I suggested is now in the article.- MrX 18:47, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
  • And that's all well and good. My experience is that dissent and honest research is suppressed on contentious issues at Wikipedia. There is ample information on this phenomenum, available with a few clicks of the button. AGW is the most egrarious, to where almost any Wikipedia article at all connected to Global Warming has been rendered as compromised. But there are numerous other subjects simililarly rendered lower quality due to the same implicit non-dissent edict here at Wikipedia. My opinion is OED is a subject which is being degraded on Wikipedia due to this same phenomenum. 10stone5 (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
It is understandable that the OOBE is not hallucination but the experience of the astral world. How do you explain that a person during a clinical death heard and saw everything that went on next door? It should not even know any of the doctors in this room, and not the patient. Of course, the doctors incredibly confirmed what the patient said. Randi is a pseudo-skeptic and pseudoscientist. OOBE is primarily not hallucination and very real experience of soul human and still paranormal activ. Alex&Trevex 22:00, 24 July 2017 (CEST)
Material on Wikipedia has to be verifiable from reliable sources. Randi, for all his showman posturings, is regarded as one such. Personally, I think that Dr. Susan Blackmore is far more reliable than some publicity-conscious ex-magician - but she just happens to agree with him. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:31, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

complete OBE was created in experiment[edit]

A complete OBE was created within seconds in healthy persons. The place cells in the brain show with fMRT that the OBE was successful. Information can be found: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150430124107.htm Brain scan reveals out-of-body illusion. DOI: 10.1016/j.cub.2015.03.059 Posterior cingulate cortex integrates the senses of self-location and body ownership — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.249.201.1 (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Usage[edit]

The OOBE is very unclear. First, it is not known if the experience actaully takes place. It is very brief. Next, the universe it takes place in is very driven by some sort of upper hand. All experiences of the OOBE are surreal and are not experienced as if the world was left the same. Some people take refuge in the act that there may be some sort of actuality to how life courses should be taken. Other than that, there is a diffent type of OOBE where you are left in a lucid dream. These experiences last from approximately five to twenty minutes in real time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.235.154.42 (talk) 10:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)