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Sonata form?[edit]

The article states, "the final version of the overture to Leonora (that known as No. 3) is the most gigantic single orchestral movement ever based on the sonata style." I can't come up with any interpretation of this statement that makes sense. The first movement of "Eroica" is longer, and if you look later than Leonora #3, you also get the first movement of the Ninth, never mind the massive sonata structures of Mahler (e.g. Symphony #3:I). I can't correct the sentence without knowing what was intended. 05:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Article originally from 1911 enc.

And doesn't it show... --Camembert
LOL. Camembert, we miss you. Antandrus 04:26, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Musical overtures have also appeared in motion pictures, mostly science fiction movies. Notable examples include 2001: A Space Odyssey, Space Cruiser Yamato (which had the distinction of a vocal overture instead of instrumental)Star Trek:The Motion Picture?, and Disney's The Black Hole.

Does this mean that these films start with a bit of music over a black screen, with nothing else happening at all (no credits, no establishing shots, nothing at all)? (I know 2001 does, but I've not seen the others.) If so, we should probably make that clearer. --Camembert

Thanks to that knowledgable guy, Anonymous, for clarifying this :) --Camembert

In popular music: The Who's rock opera "Tommy" has both an Overture and an "Underture." (;o}) --gailcats —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gailcats (talkcontribs) 23:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


Is it just I, or is this article POV? Maybe we should fix it up a bit.--Stratford15 21:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


I am going to delete the trivia section of this article. All video games have introductory audio tracks; simply because that track is entitled "overture" does not make its game notable. Mbkatz 11:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

um... actually I think maybe for the trivia section we should insert something about who plays the overture and where they sit (talk) 19:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Opening Sentence[edit]

Why in God's name is "presaged@ in the first sentence, and what is it supposed to mean, presaging a genre? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:36, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


Why is the lead restricted to opera? It's often the opening of a (dance) suite, sometimes even a synonym for them. Mention ballet? Incidental music? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Are we looking at the same thing? I see an opening sentence declaring that the form originated with opera, but this is followed by: "During the early Romantic era, composers such as Beethoven and Mendelssohn began to use the term to refer to independent, self-existing instrumental, programmatic works that presaged genres such as the symphonic poem. These were 'at first undoubtedly intended to be played at the head of a programme'[ref omitted]". The article itself asserts that the form actually originated in Lully's ballets (which would seem to contradict the first sentence of the lead), though in the context of French 17th-century theatrical genres, boundary lines are often difficult to draw. Nevertheless, ballet and the dance suite could be mentioned in a sentence inserted before lurching into the excesses of the 19th century. I think (off the top of my head) that "incidental music" as a concept belongs to the 19th century, but since it is not at present mentioned anywhere, has no place in the lead, which should merely summarize the article's contents. Of course this should be added to the article, since there are many distinguished overtures that were written for stage plays (not always with associated incidental music).—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2015 (UTC)