Talk:Pallium

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Catholicism (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Catholicism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
 
WikiProject Fashion (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fashion, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Fashion on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Weird[edit]

Something is wrong with the last sentence in the third paragraph, but I'm not sure how it should read. Currently it is: "The lambs whose wool is destined for the making, of the pallia are solemnly presented at the altar by the nuns of the convent of Saint Agnes at March, 1644." What does "at March, 1644" have to do with the rest of the subject of the sentence? Any Roman Catholic experts want to weigh in on this? --Jarsyl 09:08, 2004 Sep 29 (UTC)

Much of this information (especially things from the old Catholic Encyclopedia) is out of date. Nowadays, metropolitan archbishops generally receive the pallium directly from the Pope in Rome on the Feast or Vigil of SS. Peter and Paul. Also, there should be information about the pallium the current Holy Father uses, and how it is closer in appearance to that of earlier centuries. --69.210.209.88 18:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The article could certainly use a massive cleanup regardless. It used to me much shorter, but a few months ago someone dumped the CE material into it without adjustments for what was already said. TCC (talk) (contribs) 19:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The article says paying for the pallium was condemned in 1432. That may be the case, but it isn't very important. As linking article [Albert of Mainz] and the history of the Protestant Reformation clearly show, paying for it was still practice at least through the early 1500s. 66.108.192.183 17:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Definition[edit]

As far as I can tell, this use of the word Pallium is very narrow. Originally, a Pallium was just a specific type of greek cloak. It certainly predates christianity, since the roman emperor Augustus is noted for denouncing Roman citizens who wore the Pallium instead of the Roman toga. In my opinion, either a note of this should be included in this article, or a separate article should be made. Edit: There is an extensive description of the general form of the Pallium at [1] which seems to also have lots of sources that could be used in a wiki description of this item. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.52.114.2 (talkcontribs).

It is, however, what the word means to the modern reader. To cross this with a kind of cloak would only lend confusion.
I suppose from this link that "pallium" was a Latin translation of himation? That is the proper Greek name for the Greek cloak, which is provided there numerous times, so to that extent the garment already has an article. Perhaps just a brief sentence with a link is all that's needed. How that Latin word came to apply to the vestment known in Greek as the omophorion, I don't really know. I note that Lewis & Short give the first definition of the word as "covering", so perhaps the name for the vestment was adopted from the more general sense of the word, as something that covered the shoulders. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Which is it?[edit]

The use of the pallium is reserved to the pope and archbishops who are metropolitans, but the latter may not use it until it is conferred upon them by the pope, normally at the celebration of the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul in June.

or is it:

the liturgy for the conferral of the pallium as it appears in the liturgical books is to take place at the beginning of the Mass in which the archbishop takes possession of his see

I understand what is meant: that the letter of the law is that it is conferred at the first mass of a metropolitan archbishop in his see, but that the common practice has been, under JPII and BXVI, to give them during the Mass immediately after they are blessed. Should the wording change, be simplified, or is it self evident enough as is?--Vidkun 14:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Pallium is also just the Roman word for cloak. The Roman garment should also be discussed in a separate section from its later development as an ecclesiastical costume. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.180.184.169 (talk) 06:05, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Common clothing item[edit]

I was directed to this page by the article for the Roman Empire that states that the pallium was a common clothing item for citizens of Rome. But this entry only talks about it being worn in a religious context. It would be greatly improved if it was mentioned how it evolved from an item of clothing worn by the general public to only ecclesiastic garb. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 19:57, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Pallium Distribution[edit]

It was announced in January 2015 that Pope Francis has changed the public ceremony of investiture effective this year. Instead of all the new Metropolitans gathering in Rome on the feast of Saints Peter and Paul (29 June), the Holy Father will only bless the pallium during Mass in Rome. The Metropolitan Archbishop will then be given the pallium by the Apostolic Nuncio for their country at a later date. The second ceremony will include the participation of the Suffragan Bishops of the province.--Dcheney (talk) 09:14, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Were there any palliums conferred in 2013 and 2014 (the 2 previous occurrences of June 29 feast of Sts. Peter & Paul during Francis pontificate)? Also, I recalled seeing something about a pallium being conferred in 1940s by Cardinal Dougherty (recipient may have been Richard Cushing, new Archbishop of Boston); that would be during World War II, and thus we'd expect difficulty w/r to travel to Rome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.47 (talk) 15:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
The distributions in 2013 and 2014 were the same as under Pope Benedict XVI. I can't think of the names right off, but there have been a few cases in recent years where the receiver was unable to attend the ceremony and it was conferred later.--Dcheney (talk) 09:25, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Initial date[edit]

Well-meaning editors will probably continue to "correct" this, but the 9th century date in the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica is typo. It's sourced to St Boniface's letter to Cuthbert (both of whom lived in the mid-8th century) and that letter in turn is sourced to "Monumenta Germaniae"'s 3rd volume of letters which—as far as Archive.org can reckon—dates to the 13th century. (For what it's worth, these guys give the same cite the EB does but the publisher's catalogue doesn't list anything similar.) This site has Talbot's translation of the letter: it's very clearly mid-8th century (AD 747) and very clearly limited to the jurisdiction of Boniface's synod. — LlywelynII 12:06, 23 June 2015 (UTC)