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avnative is right. Mr. Lane, kukuman, I stand corrected.
Therefore, I have corrected the information and placed only verifiable information so that it stands correct for the time being until further notice.
This page is also getting too long and the warning message is appearing, so I have shortened it.
May God bless you, anon. To say and do what you have presented here and on the Palmdale page is hard to do, and harder to say. You have my admiration! Looking forward to your constructive, thoughtful, factual edits around the Wiki in the future. . .
(You'll also notice I archived all previous talk on this page - please see the header at the top of this page.)
Happy Trails to you! --avnative 19:22, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)
Nice, looks much better and more accurate. Kudos anon. --Kukuman 01:01, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I agree it looks much better now. One thing that concerns me, though, is all those red links in the list of nearby communities. Some time ago, a bot was created that generated Wikipedia articles out of publicly available U.S. census data. That process created articles for several thousand cities and towns in the U.S., most of which no human editor had laid a finger on. The resulting basic article about each place has provided a site where additional details about it can be added. The coverage was pretty thorough, so I'm surprised to see so many red links. Does anyone know the cause? Are some of these places (Neenach, Pearblossom, etc.) just informal names for areas that the census treats as being part of Palmdale or some other larger city? JamesMLane 05:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- No, actually they really are towns and villages with their own chambers of commerce and zip codes. They are recognized by the Yahoo! city directory and other sites. Why the bot article did not find them... I don't really know. Avnative also mentions them in his Antelope Valley article and we are working to get pages for them so they won't be dead links any longer. Any assistance to get basic pages faster would be nice.
Brief Info on them are as follows:
Pearblossom, 93553: http://www.citylinkz.com/California/Pearblossom.html - note: population given on website is for Los Angeles County. Pearblossom truthfully only has about 5,000 residents. http://www.geocities.com/pearblossomca/ Pearblossom Hwy. (SR-138) is named for this town.
Llano is the town next door between Pearblossom and Pinon Hills. Llano zip is 93544.
Agua Dulce, 91350: http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/gazetteer?zip=91350
Antelope Acres, Del Sur, & Neenach share 93536 ( also shared zip with Lancaster-west & Quartz Hill. Very big zip-code.)
Antelope Acres is http://www.officialcitysites.org/city.php3?st=CA&cityname=Antelope+Acres
Del Sur is the next town west of Quartz Hill and south of Antelope Acres.
Neenach has an official weather station there: http://tao.atmos.washington.edu/greg/southwest/states/CA/046122.html
Valyermo is 93563 zip code.
Lake Hughes is where the Pine Fire started the week before the larger forest fire in Acton. Lake Elizabeth is the town next door to it. Their zipcode is 93532 and they border & share the physical Elizabeth Lake. They are both west of Palmdale. Leona Valley is a town next to Palmdale to the Southwest. It shares 93551 with Palmdale-west. All three, (Leona Valley, Lake's Elizabeth & Hughes) are in the physical Leona Valley. The physical Leona Valley is a long narrow valley on the south end of the Antelope Valley separated from the main valley by the San Andreas Fault (the portion known as Ritter Ridge.)
Most of the input for these pages will have to be written by local residents to the area, however this info should help to create a stub type page for them.
JML, Anon - Anon has credible info listed above (and he didn't have to go to lengths in documenting each community with a website - I know these place names well). These are all place names where people say, for instance, "I live in Lake Elizabeth, not Lancaster" and "I need to find out if you could please take me to my friend in Valyermo from where my car conked out in here in Neenach." Los Angeles denizens get scared when we AVers use place names other than the "magic words" of Palmdale or Lancaster, but trust me - these place names Anon has listed and the place names another user/editor placed into the Antelope Valley article (BTW, I don't "own" the article - it's part of the free Wikipedia, available to anyone) are very legitimate. They aren't subsumed into either Palmdale city limits or Lancaster city limits. They deserve Wiki articles of their own - however humble or small they might be.
I second Anon's request for Bot assistance in getting some basic info for these communities. Over time, these places will be populated in good old LA fashion, and an already written history, combined with new developments as the communities grow will be an asset. Happy Trails, --avnative 08:44, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
- The bot was created by User:Ram-Man, and he has some information on it at User:Rambot. You can check with him, or just dive in and start doing descriptive articles, adding the census data later, whether by bot or by "hand". JamesMLane 06:57, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Mr. Lane. I was wondering how to add a map to the page similar to the one Henderson has. Avnative and I are not sure how to make one.
- JML, Anon: Perhaps our good friend Decumanus of map-making skill could help out in this regard.
- I'd like to request the following besides just Palmdale (of course):
- Lancaster, California
- Rosamond, California
- Mojave, California
- Boron, California
- Tehachapi, California
- Pearblossom, California
- Acton, California
- Agua Dulce, California
- Lake Hughes, California
- The above are a "skeleton" of large population centers, including "corners" of the Antelope Valley and nearby adjacent areas. In that way the AV can be better explained via visual maps in each of these articles. For communities near one of the above places, we could say "X is 8 miles west of Rosamond" or similar statement. That way Decumanus wouldn't have to make a map for every article, eh?
- Don't worry if the article isn't yet written. One of us could certainly make a stub so as to make a place for the map to go into.
- For that matter, I'd love it if Dec could be persuaded to make a map of the Antelope Valley itself. The eastern border is the tricky part: some put the defining line at the buttes you can see in a topo map, and some define the border as the Los Angeles County/San Bernadino County border. Buttes would be fine with me, and make it easier on Decumanus. Your kind thoughts? --avnative 09:05, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
- If you can get someone to create a map or a set of maps, more power to you. I suggest, though, that a better place to start would be to see what's already available. There might be U.S. government maps that are in the public domain. There might be a map that, say, some local Chamber of Commerce owns, but which it would be willing to release under the GNU FDL. (Note that "OK, you can use our map on Wikipedia" is not enough. The copyright owner should give the FDL permission. If you find a map you want, you can send the Wikipedia:Boilerplate request for permission to the copyright owner.)
- Once you obtain a map, you have to include it with the appropriate article(s). I'm no big expert on adding any kind of image, including maps. I've done it once, with a photo. In the course of figuring out how to do that, I collected some of the main Wikipedia pages on the subject; you'll find them listed on my User page. You'll also find those pages useful if you obtain or take any photographs. For maps and pictures, I think life is easier if they're in .jpg form, but I'm not sure. If you run into any snags about dealing with maps or other images, I suggest you post a query on Wikipedia:Help desk -- not that I'm unwilling to help you, but I'm out of my depth on this subject.
- Good luck! JamesMLane 06:57, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- James, appreciate your kind advice. Understand you are out of depth regarding mapmaking on the Wiki - and I believe Decumanus would be an excellent source if US govt. maps (public domain ones) don't work out. Dec and I have crossed paths previously and I admire his work (he has topographical mapmaking skill). That kind of skill would better explain Palmdale vis a vis Los Angeles (considering the San Gabriel Mountain range that is so wide). This work with Decumanus is on my to do list - long term goal if public domain sources don't pan out. Thanks again for your kind attention to the Pamdale article and your well-considered input. --avnative 14:45, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
- As I was saying in response to JML above, I think long term a map by Decumanus is the way to go. . . but for the interim, your map, Kukuman, would be great! One favor though. . . Could you also insert the significant incorporated cities of Victorville, Barstow, and Ridgecrest while dropping Lone Pine and Santa Monica? My reasoning for it is this: Ridgecrest is more of a trading partner with Palmdale than Lone Pine, and Santa Monica (the words) displays too close to Los Angeles (the big kahuna, which you have to include). You already have Bakersfield and SLO. This way "all points on the geographic compass" (N,S,E,W) from Palmdale are covered - and Palmdale's location is made more clear. If you'd like to do that for your fellow Wikipedians (and for the project), I'd be most grateful. Waddya say? --avnative 14:45, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
- I can certainly add Victorville, Barstow, and Ridgecrest, but unfortunately I can't drop Lone Pine and Santa Monica, without also dropping Los Angeles, Riverside, and all the other cities on the map. They are automatically plotted by the OMC tool when you choose to plot cities. If that's still OK let me know. --Kukuman 23:40, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Ummm. . . Yes, certainly add the three cities listed above and keep Santa Monica and Lone Pine. One small fly (Santa Monica) isn't worth getting bent out of shape about. Perfection can wait another day. Really appreciate your willingness and help in this. . . and please feel free to add the revised map to the Palmdale page without any further discussion from me - unless anyone objects. I'll be adding a pix or two down the road, BTW. --avnative 00:34, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
I've revised the article per my earlier discussions (archived on this page) and as discussed on my user talk page. Hopefully nothing is too controversial in the changes. The blow by blow:
- First paragraph - cited Palmdale city hall as the source of the 2004 population estimate. Defined Lan/Plm UA as a Census term. Descriptive additions (considering the worldwide audience of Wikipedia).
- Retitled "Area Information" to "Palmdale Today." After all, isn't the article about Palmdale - and aren't we in agreement to fairly describe present day Palmdale to a world outside that too often holds to outdated impressions of how it used to be? (smile) Notice how I stated (based on percentage change) - qualifying the "top 10" statement to make it more accurate (and believable). "Desert city" is a POV term in California. Actually, Beverly Hills and Pasadena, LA, etc. sit on land which was years ago described as a desert. Of course they are populated these days. So is Palmdale now. The term is usually used by Angelenos to describe a locality which is not part of their definition of "the Southland" or "Los Angeles" (talk about hard to define terms - just check out the Wiki on this a bit more!) It's used as a way to define the Angeleno as better (being from a well-established city) and the "desert city" dweller as being somehow second-class. True, Palmdale is in the Mojave Desert. . . but I personally don't like the term "desert city" much. It's like the LA Times calling Palmdale "the armpit of Southern California." (they actually said this a few years back) It leaves a bad taste in this native's mouth. I tightened up the text to make the text more credible and believable (one would believe 194th in population, but top 200 can raise antennas - the "194th" shows someone did their homework). Notice my strong but factual portrayal of film moguls presenting Palmdale as it used to be decades ago. Say ooooo. . .
- Third paragraph - 40 miles wide (not saying how long the San Gabriels transverse the area). Adds credibility. Sorry, Palmdale isn't the principal city of the AV. Lancaster is still too significant a city. The title has to be shared at present, IMHO. (Does Palmdale have the Jethawks the Antelope Valley Fair and County governmental offices? Nooooo. . . .)
- Fourth paragraph: It refers to itself as Aerospace Capital of the world. Notice the difference. Seattle folks and Wichita, KS folks, and the people at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH might get a bit bent out of shape if we don't include that qualifier - which allows it to stay, BTW. Replaced "birthplace" with my several activity qualifiers (acquired through my faimily's long association with the aerospace industry here, BTW). A more accurate statement results. Reinserted our aerospace companies (they have a "home" at Plant 42, but they are just major operations there. Their corporate headquarters are not in Palmdale itself).
- Fifth paragraph - PMD is co-sited (shared facilities) with Plant 42. Common knowledge around the AV. Let's report it as fact. Added perspective on PMD history vis a vis LAWA and discussed perceptions which hamper PMD from becoming a more used airport. Hope you like it! That Sherman Oaks example I've timed many a time when I've driven (for pay) as a Senior Driver for Prime Time Shuttle. The times should still be comparable.
- Added header for area communities - with qualifier so as not to mislead those who think Ridgecrest, for example, is in the Antelope Valley. It's in the Indian Wells Valley, which is a separate geographical valley north of the geographic Antelope Valley.
- Moved Geographic info towards the bottom (can be boring stuff).
- CA 18 at its western terminus with CA 138 is not in the city limits of Palmdale! Replaced "Palmdale" with "Antelope Valley" as a result. Let's not expand Palmdale's borders before ol' Jimmy Led and his city council get a chance to vote on it! (smile) You may disagree with me on the CA 18 freeway situation, but I will compromise this way: it stays in so long as my Caltrans failure to make CA 138 into at least an expressway (which they've been saying for decades now - as long as I've been alive) stays in. Frankly, I don't believe Caltrans verbal (or written) pronouncements on the matter. You may choose to do so. It smacks of it being a done deal when you believe Caltrans on CA 18, though. I'd rather wait until the thing is actually built as a freeway (and I'll buy the caviar for you at the ribbon cutting ceremony, OK?).
Hopefully, you or anyone else won't have many qualms with my major edit. Still to come is the Palmdale history section - to be done later. Thanks for your kind understanding! --avnative 19:33, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
Well I must say, I am quite impressed. Excellent job neighbor. I coudn't have done better myself. I really like it.
- When I wrote about the 18 I was referring to the proposed terminus at Technology Dr. Yeah, I know what you mean about Caltrans or any government org that proposes anything. 10 years means 40. (smile)
- I was speaking from the perspective as a Lancaster resident. I agree the title is now shared as granted by the Census. But living here, I know myself, if there is anything I want to do, I must go to Palmdale to do it, and I am quite sure that you do too. I go to Wal-Mart, Vons, and the Movies here in Lancaster. That's it. Lancaster is more ideal for low-lifes. The things they need like the courthouse and police station are closer, and there are more "mini-projects" type housing in Lancaster. (Not saying that Palmdale doesn't have them at all, it's just not quite as many percentage-wise.) But this can go back & forth forever... so for now it stays. (smile)
- PMD is the call sign for the airport itself and is shared with Plant 42 and Palmdale Regional. Know what you mean about the "distance thingy". (smile) Hopefully we can get the airlines to read your article. (wink)
P.S. - I added a stub for Pearblossom, so there is one less dead link. Check it out avnative. Pearblossom
- "You like me, you really like me!" - Sally Field
- Wasn't all that discussion worth it, Anon? (I think you'll agree. . . /broad grin/) Now I think you understand the power of collaboration on the Wikipedia project: two - or more - heads are better than one alone. As a side benefit, you also get to make friends here - both near and far away! Are you becoming a Wikiholic yet, Anon? (smile)
- Wow. . . you really threw me with your understanding regarding what you referred to as CA 18. I was thinking of the actual road that people drive on today in Llano, and you were thinking of Avenue P-8 in Palmdale (Technology Drive to you - we old-timers have trouble calling things by the newfangled names. . .) Now I understand what you were getting at. However, even that project from the freeway to the airport area is in grave doubt, IMHO. Of course I'd like it to be done, just as you would too. . . Hey! a little trivia! Why was Tech Dr. (Avenue P-8) originally built, and in what year?
- Lancaster, as the older commercial center of the valley, has more of the things you would expect of an older community that had a lower population previously. I don't consider that bad. I know where you're coming from, and your age group has many of your peers thinking that same way. I run into your peers all the time. . . BTW, not all younger folks get into trouble with the law, drugs, etc. etc. that live in the valley. People have goals. People have lives. I do! As far as "new" Palmdale goes, it's too high priced and crowded for my tastes. I go to Littlerock or Grocery Outlet in Lancaster for groceries. I go to H&E rather than Home Depot. I avoid Wal-Mart like the plague (and shop the 99 cents store instead).
- Even though Lancaster may seem as though it is losing out to Palmdale's "spanking new" retail sector and Palmdale will become this juggernaut of a city and Lancaster will depopulate. . . stop the presses. Let's understand the dynamics of the two incorporated cities. Lancaster was for decades and decades the "Heart of the Antelope Valley" where the farmers (remember them?) would go for their retail and social needs. Now Palmdale, being closer to LA and with all that available land (still has lots to develop, too) is rising to the fore. Lancaster will undoubtably respond by specializing in some activity where it has strengths. I see strengths in caring for the elderly when I think of Lancaster (I visit them in nursing homes all the time). Lancaster is in fact a senior citizen friendly place. It's also a great place for children and youth, with Antelope Valley College established for 44 years at Avenue K and 30th St. West, not to mention Desert Christian Schools - named this year by Christianity Today magazine as one of the best Christian organizations to work for in the United States. I see Lancaster becoming a place for the young, old, and those seeking a quiet life raising their kids and Pamdale for those with jobs, incomes, and a more active life like Angelenos - late 20's, thirtysomethings, fortysomethings. That's why you like Palmdale, and I like Lancaster more - we are of different ages and concerns.
- The IATA PMD airport code designation has been given to the airport for decades now. I have friends who work out of the FAA LA center on Avenue P (as well as Lockheed, Northrop, and Boeing here) and am well-versed in things Plant 42. My parents, at different times, worked there. I can't say all that they did, but my mother did work on the B-1 Lancer project back in the day. . . at the same time that the Space Shuttles were being built right next door. BTW, that Terminal movie location was at the old Rockwell site where my mother once worked, not Lockheed (which is not a vacant building. . . ). That's why I corrected you in the article. I know the building (now owned by Boeing) well.
- Yeah, it would be great for decision makers in the airline industry to get on the ball and figure out that PMD is the next (maybe last) place for major air transportation in the Southland to be developed. I worded the article with that in mind. . . (grin) --avnative 16:42, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
- The article on Aldous Huxley says that he wrote a children's book titled The Crows of Pearblossom. He lived the last years of his life in Southern California, so I assume the reference is to this town. I'm not familiar with the book, though. Is there anything about it that could usefully be added to the Pearblossom article? JamesMLane 09:22, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- JML, I'm the editor who contributed the above information you refer to. The book is really about a real life pharmacist family that lived in Palmdale in the 1930's and 1940's, given the fictional surname "the Crows" in Huxley's book. Because the family (who friends of mine still know) didn't want to be made known in an obvious way in the book, both their surname and their living location were changed - scratching out Palmdale, replacing it with Pearblossom - the next town west to Huxley's Llano. (Remember that in that time period, the Antelope Valley had much less population - and living in "small town" Palmdale one had to be careful about how one conducted their speech, especially to an author like Huxley.) Huxley admired this family, thought they behaved well, and gave a "pat on the back" (and a slap on individuals he detested) in this particular children's book. Great question. . . hope you like the answer! For more on this story, one may consult the Palmdale City Main library where hopefully the Antelope Valley Press article on this subject has been cut and put into the local history files, or more directly just contact the Valley Press - they have a vast archive of information about the Antelope Valley (for a fee, of course).
- Happy Trails to You! --avnative 16:42, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
- Whether or not something about the book goes into the Palmdale article, I would strongly encourage you to insert an explanation in the Pearblossom article along the lines of your comment above. The reason is that someone who knows of the book (from our article on Huxley or independently) might be interested in knowing whether Pearblossom is a real place, or in learning how the book came to be set there. Such a reader won't know to go to the Palmdale article. He or she will look for Pearblossom, California, or often just Pearblossom, which TheAnon already made a redirect. JamesMLane 21:27, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Consider it done. Hope you and others around the Wiki like it! Oh, Pearblossom is a real place where people live. . . and when Huxley was alive, he passed through it too! --avnative 23:21, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
We got a map. Cool! Now we need a picture(s). I created more stubs for those dead links. I am tired and I have to get up early tomorrow, so I am going to bed. I am starting to understand what Wikiholic is all about. Go over them and add anything if you can. The Lake's are the only ones left to create. Night.--Anon 07:42, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)
- Yup, we have a map now. Glad you like it. Kukuman, please take a bow. . . (smile) Pictures are coming. . . I need time to do all this stuff, and remember, it's volunteer duty. I have a paying job that needs my attention too. . .
- I saw your stubs, The Anon, and so far looks good. Again, these stubs take time. I have a real life outside of WP, and I think you do too. It's fun to contribute, but I do want to lead a balanced life. . . Believe me, they will get worked on as my time permits. They are not my top priority in life right now, but It's something I do as a hobby as I have time and other more important priorities are met. I don't intend to stop contributing at this point to AV articles, so give it some time and please stay tuned! --avnative 01:35, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
Idea for Map
I was perusing around on different links, and I came across the page for Glendale. Glendale has a pretty cool little map of Los Angeles County, with the city limits of Glendale in red and the city's seal. In looking at this map, it has all of the incorporated boundaries of L.A. County cities, including Palmdale's and Lancaster's. Perhaps this map can be adapted to the Palmdale article.
What do you think? Then we can have the topographical style So. Cal. map below it, followed by some pictures. --Anon 06:18, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
- Indeed! I had forgotten about the "down below" cities having that nice city seal/map/info box that the Wikipedia US cities team produced. User:Mackerm is one who is very involved in LA County geographic stuff, and would be good to consult if you had any problems.
- A map for Palmdale like Glendale's, combined with a topographical map below it, followed by a picture or two is an excellent thought! Kudos for thinking it! I'm all for it - I'll contribute the pictures if you (The anon) get the Palmdale city seal/map/info box taken care of. Then we'll figure out who could do the topographical map. I have some other sources that could be of great help for it, but they aren't clued in yet. Waddya say? --avnative 23:27, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
Thanx. I inquired to User:Mackerm about getting a map for us like the Glendale one. Where would I get the city seal? The Civic Center? I am still not quite sure how to upload something graphic into Wikipedia yet. I'd have to take a picture of it with my digital camera. I don't have a scanner. Should I use low-res so it doesn't take up a lot of space on the server, or should I take hi-res so it is clearly shown? What do you think?--Anon 10:07, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)
- I uploaded a map. For the other cities I did, I swiped the seals from the official city websites, and edited with them a bit in Photoshop. It looks like Palmdale's seal is a blue and white swirl with a stalk of dates. I was also trying to find city flags without much success. Mackerm 18:38, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Great, now we have the map. How do we add the other stuff to it like (elev., pop, metro, incorp date, sq. mi., city seal, etc... so that it looks like L.A. & Glendale's? --Anon 23:34, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)
- Well, we've got most of it done. Now all we need is the topographic/locality map, a more detailed history, some local points of interest (like the Airpark, etc...), and some pictures. Then we can move on to Lancaster. --Anon 09:24, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)
- The history section I can easily do. Blackbird and Heritage Airparks are pretty much already written at the Plant 42 article. Pictures I already have. I can upload them. . . now that I've gotten the hang of it a bit from doing the Wikipedia:Images of Ridge Route supplementary article. Let me take care of some nonWiki things, and they'll get done in the very near future - as my time permits! Let me start contacting my topographic map sources - I'll let you know what I can find, OK? --avnative 15:51, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)
Well, It's Done
Hey there Mr. Avnative... well Palmdale now has a history section... It took me awhile to get it done, but it's here. Hope you like it. Don't be afraid to copyedit it. Microsoft Word usually catches things, but sometimes it doesn't, so it's always helpful to have another human overview it.
Now I gotta finish Lancaster's history section. Ta Ta for now. --Anon 10:22, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
- Superb job. Congratulations. -Willmcw 10:27, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
I just stumbled on this page and just want to say (not even having read this Talk page or knowing who created it) that this is a superbly-written and absolutely ideal article! Would that all city articles could be this good! I'm going to see if I can figure out if this page has ever been nominated for Featured article status. (I don't want to drag anyone down that path if you'd rather not be nominated, so let me know....) I think the story of Palmdale is intrisically interesting, considering its explosive growth and its very America-at-the-dawn-of-the-21st century story, and I believe this article is ready to be nominated for Featured status. (Again, if you think that's out of line, I won't do it). Either way, great job! Moncrief 17:39, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
Thanx Moncrief... I appreciate your commendations on the article... It has gone a long way. You can nominate if you wish. Hopefully I can get the Lancaster, California article up to the same par which is what I am currently working on. Once again, thanks for the compliment. --Anon 02:51, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
- You're welcome. I'm going to wait a little bit to nominate it for Featured Article status only because of the arguably silly reason that the current article being voted on at the top of that page is about Death Valley - I wouldn't want the (relative, in the minds of some Wikipedians) geographic proximity of the two locations to sway people's votes against this article somehow (again, I know it sounds silly but it seems like something that might happen - i.e., 'why should we vote "yes" on two articles in a row about Southern California desert locations?'). But I will nom. once a few more nominations are added to that page. Moncrief 19:09, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
I also just read through this article and thought that it was very well-written. However, I do not think it's quite good enough for featured article status, but that's just from my experiences. It could become a featured article with only a little bit of work, which is more than I can say for just about any other city article on Wikipedia. Very good job with this article! bob rulz 05:36, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
Our unknown user who placed Palmdale's population at 201,000 people, in a sense is correct given if you include all of the unincorporated district areas that are addressed as Palmdale into the figure such as White-Fence Farms, Desert-View Highlands, Harold, Lakeview, and Sun Village. However, since this is an encyclopedia, it must display only the physical determinable facts, and as that stands, there are only about 150,000 people within the city limits this year. The other 50,000 or so cannot be counted with it until they are incorporated into the city as well. If you wish for them to be counted, I suggest you push for a movement downtown for annexation of them. (unsigned comment placed by 188.8.131.52)
- Regarding "Our unknown user": talking to yourself, eh, Anon? Please don't be so coy. Your editorial preferences and biases are once again showing through.
- For the record, the article needs to become more sober and fact-based in its content, and less like "veneer of the truth, stuffed with lies" IMO. (Sorry for the very belated review of your work these last months.) Interesting. . . I know a realtor from a certain real estate office that Anon claims he works at, and he says that the way you edit does no credit to Palmdale, the Antelope Valley, or the real estate profession. This realtor friend says no one in the Real Estate profession locally would act the way Anon does. So what gives, Anon? You know, some months ago, you agreed to stay fact-based in your edits. Yet the minute I took my eyes off of you you returned to your former ways of editing. You also never did take me up on my gracious offer of a face to face meeting to discuss our differences.
- Therefore, for the record, let all Wikipedia users know this: Palmdale, California will be returning to content consistent with Wikipedia guidelines/policy. Editors who are collegial and work well with other editors within Wikipedia have nothing to fear. But those editors who don't. . . well, what can I say? Your days of puffery are numbered. --avnative 12:22, 17 September 2005 (UTC) PS: where on earth do you get the 50,000 figure for the localities listed above? Thin air as usual?
Woah, woah, woah avnative... retract those claws. I didn't edit that population figure. I haven't done any editing with this page for at least a couple of months. Where do you get your information? By the way, I did try to talk to you, but I thought that something happened since you seemed to dissapear for several months. You stopped posting to your own page. I didn't know where you went.
Just tell me then, which part of this page "editorally" do you not agree with? I have kept it within information that I was able to obtain in print. There is nothing on this page that I cannot show you in print. As a matter of fact, the Los Angeles Times printed just over 2 weeks ago that there are over 614,000 people in the Antelope Valley now. I didn't even add that to the metro update. If I was editing the way that I had at first, I would have. I didn't. I left it at what the Greater Antelope Valley Economic Alliance stated it was at.
I don't want to go into this editing war again. Users, including Wiki Administrators have commented on how well they thought the article was written. If they saw that it was not written to the Wikipedia guidelines and policy, would they have suggested that it be put up for "featured article status"? I don't think so.
I don't know where this chip on your shoulder against me has come from, but to go to the point of trying to investigate me with my colleagues is way out of bounds. What would motivate such an action, other than sabotage? As a Christian (as you state on your talk page), you must realize that we must follow Christ's example, including the art of forgiveness. When a person is truly forgiving, they make no further mention of the situation, as though it has been forgotten. When his apostles asked him how many times they were to forgive a person, they suggested seven times, thinking that they were being generous by doing so. Christ told them they need to forgive up to 77 times, to emphasize the point that there should be no limit to forgiving your fellow man. You are bringing up an incident that had occurred well over a year ago. You told me that you had forgiven me, and I told you that I was going to work on my impetuosness. Well? By you mentioning something that should not be mentioned again, was it really truly forgiven, according to the way Christ forgives? --Anon 18:43, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
P.S. - All I can tell you about those population figures mentioned above is this: White Fence Farms has a population of about 15,000. Desert-View Highlands has just under 3,000. Sun Village has about 10,000. Lakeview (near Anaverde) has 500. Harold has 1,500. I would agree with the unknown user (whomever that was, not me), to a point, that these "unincorporated islands" add a little more to the true population figure, but not as exaggerated of one as he/she suggested. Rather, I would say that it is closer to 170,000 than 200,000.
Battle Of Palmdale
A little interesting item of information relative to Palmdale was the "Battle Of Palmdale" on 16 August 1956, when the US Air Force bombarded the town.
On that day, a Grumman F6F Hellcat converted to a radio controlled target drone took off from the Point Mugu Naval Air Station to fly to a target range over the Pacific Ocean. It "slipped the leash" and headed for Los Angeles. Since nobody liked the idea of the unpiloted machine flying into, say, a school, two Northrop F-89D Scorpion interceptors were scrambled from Oxnard Air Force Base to shoot it down.
The Scorpions were only armed with unguided rockets, 104 per aircraft in wingtip pods. The Hellcat ended up wandering in a perverse fashion north of Los Angeles. The Scorpions fired rocket salvos at it, missing and starting a brush fire. They tried again, missing and setting up two more brush fires (including one fueled by oil rigs). They gave it one more try, using up the last of their rockets -- which missed the Hellcat and fell in and around Palmdale.
A piece of shrapnel went through the living room window of one house, passing through a wall and ending up in a kitchen cupboard. Another chunk of shrapnel passed through a garage and a house. A rocket fell in front of a car driving down the road and shredded the car's front end. Miraculously, nobody was hurt. Explosive ordnance disposal teams from Edwards Air Force Base picked up 13 dud rockets from the Palmdale area over the next few days. It took hundreds of firefighters two days to put out the fires, after the blaze had consumed hundreds of acres of brush.
The Hellcat eventually ran out of fuel and fell to earth in the desert, cutting three power lines but causing no other damage.
Having no particular interest in Palmdale I don't think I should modify this article, but if anyone likes this story, feel free to include it. Greg Goebel / 04 jan 06
- There was a recent article in the L.A. Times about this event. -Will Beback 03:34, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Note that with the addition of the infobox template, I had to omit the following information due to no relevant fields being present in the template:
- City flower – Lilac
- City tree – Joshua Tree
Rmannion 19:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a section or at least a paragraph on the infamous "Palmdale Bulge". While now disproved, this oddity of geological history was significant in that it led to a measurable population exodus during the 1960's. Many news articles were written about it both at the time of it's "discovery" as well as later when it was disproved. Iwould gladly add this myself but I do not have access to the old newspaper archives from that era. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 10:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
- The Palmdale Bulge story was first reported in 1974 and many residents fled the area in the 1970s not the 60s, unless you mentioned the fears of the New Age-related failed prediction of a M9.0 earthquake on April 18, 1969 "will strike the Palmdale section" of the San Andreas Fault runs through south of the city. Lake Palmdale will not become a volcano, and Los Angeles basin will not fall into the Pacific ocean, to create an island of the San Gabriel Mountains, and Palmdale or Lancaster isn't going to turn into a large beach-front sand dunes. The bulge is part of a geological phenomenon known as the Levelling refraction effect. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 08:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I noticed the page on Lancaster has a list of both public and private schools but the Palmdale page only lists public schools. Are there private schools in Palmdale? The only private schools I know of are listed in Lancaster. Mooreba1003 (talk) 16:12, 14 October 2012 (UTC)