Talk:Suntukan

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Rename to Mano Mano[edit]

Hi all. I would like to nominate the article for renaming to "Mano Mano" because the term "Suntukan" only refers to the punching aspect. Suntukan does not include kicks or elbows - it specifically refers to fistfighting. Moreover, Suntukan is a Tagalog-only term. Pangamut is a Visayan-only term. Mano Mano (hand-to-hand) on the other hand is used throughout the archipelago to refer to any aspect of unarmed fighting. I will wait for 1 month, after which I will nominate the article for renaming to Mano Mano. -Object404 (talk) 03:08, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Primary article description now modified to reflect "Suntukan" better as opposed to Mano-mano by qualifying with "Fist-related". The article doesn't necessarily need to be moved to Mano-mano anymore. A separate article for Mano-mano for the general term for unarmed fighting can be created. -Object404 (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Reliable sources[edit]

I would like to apologize in advance for including Forum posts with first and second-hand accounts from students, instructors and other practitioners of Filipino Martial Arts as references. Given its history and nature (as well as the yearly death of martial arts masters and practitioners), it is particularly difficult to find documentation on various FMA styles, history and people. I know that Forum posts and First-hand interviews are normally not considered as Reliable Sources under proper Wikipedia sourcing and editing guidelines, but it is my opinion that accounts and small tidbits and anecdotes like these provide better information and insight as resources rather than having no links at all.

Unless some of these sources are really contentious and objectionable, I would appreciate it if future editors would refrain from removing them as it took many man hours of searching and sleuthing to unearth them.

Moreover, a number of those forum postings have re-posts of entire articles from reputable publications that are out of print and are very hard to find, as well as commentaries from established and reputable FMA practitioners and instructors.

Regards,

-Object404 (talk) 08:02, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

From Panantukan to Suntukan[edit]

I have moved the article Panantukan to this, one, Suntukan. Suntukan is the proper Filipino language (based on Tagalog) term used for boxing and empty hands fighting. Lucky Lucaylucay who popularized the term Panantukan was born in Hawaii in 1924 before the official Filipino national language (based on Tagalog) was codified only in 1936. As such, Lucaylucay would have natively spoken Cebuano at home growing up in Hawaii and not modern standardized Filipino. We have been theorizing that the term Panantukan comes from the Tagalog (not Lucaylucay's native tongue) term "suntok" and that Panantukan may have been a gramatically incorrect rendition of "Panuntukan" or "Panununtukan" - the alternate forms of "Pagsuntukan" or "Pagsusuntukan" (which translates to "The art of boxing").

In the Philippines, the term Panantukan is virtually unknown.

For additional discussion on this change of Wikipedia article naming, please join our on this topic at the Warrior Arts Research Society group on Facebook.

As of now, we are still trying to ascertain which Philippine region and dialect the term "Panantukan" comes from (as well as the term "Pananjakman"). Current consensus seem to indicate that it is a bastardisation from the Tagalog language term "suntok" and "suntukan". We would greatly appreciate it if additional people can provide more information so we can modify or correct the article.

Regards,

-Object404 (talk) 22:12, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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