|WikiProject Biography / Politics and Government||(Rated C-class)|
|WikiProject Trinidad and Tobago||(Rated B-class, High-importance)|
- 1 Bias?
- 2 for those of you who haven't got a clue yet . . .
- 3 Ishango replies
- 4 Improving the article
- 5 Ishango
- 6 Removing articles on Patrick Manning and Basdeo Panday
- 7 Interesting Reading
- 8 Is this article about Patrick Manning or Basdeo Panday?
- 9 This is to be Expected
- 10 New comment
- 11 Flaws in your argument
- 12 IS THIS THE IMAGE THAT WE WANT TO PORTRAY TO THE WORLD?
- 13 that IS Manning's reputation
- 14 Instead of complaining about bias..
- 15 Vandalism warnings
- 16 Question...
- 17 Assessment comment
- 18 External links modified
JonCumber 19:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)The sitting entry on Patrick Manning is an appallingly biased and highly subjective piece of mischief. While no one will agree that Mr. Manning is considered a popular PM, his stewardship of the country's affairs remains fairly exemplary based on every international indices applicable. His party's ongoing success at the polls..and 2007 shall be no exception..also suggests both he and his party remain the nationally preferred option. I appeal to Wikipedia to remove this formal entry immediately. I am also willing to provide a fair and unbalanced entry and can direct the editors to any number of colleagues who are willing to do the same. To the offending wirter, Wikipedia is an internationally viewed site that largely depends on the honesty and integrity of its contributors to be of any worth. Take a close look at yourself and review what you have done here.
for those of you who haven't got a clue yet . . .
Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia of information based on "reliable sources". It is a place where anyone can post almost anything they want and add and remove information as they please. It should not be used for fact finding though some factual information may be contained herein. If you want facts go to encarta.com or google a good free online encyclopedia. As for the rhetoric about patrick manning and basdeo panday, I think people need to get a life and stop trying to promote political agendas. Yes a biography should be about facts not opinions and hersay about people. The biographies of these two politicians should be removed due to abuse aI agree.
Patrick manning did alot for the people of Trinidad and Tobago.
For Exmaple ?
yep, gotta love someone who becomes party leader because everyone else lost their seats, and then says "call me Father of the Nation"
This Anti-PNM rhetoric is not useful for this site. Please stop it!
Imbalanced or incomplete information
The information presented in this article is not balanced. It appears to be written by a critic rather than a historian or journalist.
Reporting on any public figure must include high and low points of their administration. Unfortunately, this article appeared to be focused on the low points. While it is true that the lows must be stated, for balanced reporting the highs must be stated as well.
There is no mention for example of the CDAP programme where essential drugs are provided to members of the public at no cost. No mention of moves made to alleviate traffic in various parts of the country. No mention made of the proposed 2020 vision. No mention made of the famous 'stand alone, lose alone' statement after losing elections in 1995. No mention made of the enhancements made to the Independence Square, changing the appearance of Port of Spain during the first term. No mention made of the turning the sod for the National Library complex.
Balanced reporting should include all relevant information, whether agreed to or not. There should therefore be a major upheaval on this site.
I do agree. The person who wrote the above should write it, though!
Improving the article
I think there's a good start here, and the potential for a featured article, but there are a number of major gaps, as the anon alluded to. I agree that the problem is balance - it's easy to write about (and easy to source) the problems.
- Achievements in his first term
- Float of the TT$
- Divestment of state enterprises
- What else?
- Achievements of his second term
- Drug benefits, university
- There needs to be a serious analysis of crime, and his inability to manage it. It was an important factor in the loss in 1995, and according to recent surveys, it's a major issue even with PNM supporters today. But how to source this?
Guettarda 11:35, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I will attempt to do so, but not now. I have to go to the Public Library here in order to do so.
The issue of crime is a complex one. It spans many decades and many people have written about it. I think that it is of such, that it needs its own page.--Ishango 14:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Removing articles on Patrick Manning and Basdeo Panday
I think that both the article on Patrick Manning and Basdeo Panday should be removed from Wikipedia. These articles are written in a very unprofessional and non-factual way, and clearly display biases in the writer(s). It is embarrassing to see that people (most likely from Trinidad) are using Wikipedia articles to put forward political views rather than report useful biographical information. Given the political nature and biases that tend to come in writing these kind of biographies, it may be better for these to be omitted from Wikipedia rather than reflecting negatively on Trinidadian politics (and the Trinidadian people who are attempting to describe these). It is really embarrassing as a Trinidadian person aware of the political climate to be reading these articles that are supposed to communicate encyclopedic knowledge, and they certainly seem to be highly unrepresentative of the information this kind of article should convey.
For example, here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Basdeo Panday:
"Now in the last years of his political career, he has been called back to leader the United National Congress a move that would more than likely see Panday face his nemesis the PNM in one final battle. Many have written off the 73 year old Panday but if history is any measure of the man he is not to be written off early. Panday has one more than one occassion demonstrated a capacity for re-invention and an almost pheonix like ability to emerge from the ashes. The final chapter in his incredibe political life is yet to be written."
Is this the quality of article that Wikipedia would like to be providing to the internet public?
Here are two excerpts from the Wikipedia article on Patrick Manning:
"Manning led the PNM to win the 1991 General Elections, and he served as Prime Minister from 1991 to 1995. His first administration was plagued by accusations of corruption by the Opposition. Crime rates increased dramatically. Accusations of links to the drug trade were made when it became known that drug lord Dole Chadee had purchased a car formerly owned by Manning."
"Manning has also been engaged in a long term battle with Trinidad and Tobago's Chief Justice, Sat Sharma. Under Manning's watch both the Leader of the Opposition and the Chief Justice have been charged with criminal offences which many see as a form of political persecution. The only other country in the Commonwealth to have done the same is Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe."
Again, this type of article does not seem to reflect the information Wikipedia would like to make available as an entry in a knowledge base similar to an encyclopedia.
126.96.36.199 04:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)Joseph Williams
The items in this article are accurate. A positive balanced is always required. However, it must be stressed it would require research. I must also state the number of positive will be minimal for this character. These articles must not be removed because there are no inaccurate descriptions. The truth must not be hidden. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Silverdolphin (talk • contribs) 15:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
Is this article about Patrick Manning or Basdeo Panday?
Why is there so much reference to Basdeo Panday in this article?
"some say Mr. Panday has succeeded in gaining support from the fundamentalist and poorer classes of people"
There are more but you can see for yourself.
I think this article has been written by someone with a serious agenda against Basdeo Panday and it should be reviewed.--Slickk 23:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
This is to be Expected
What passes for politics in Trinidad and Tobago is like that of other nations save, that it is usually that of no policies, philosophies or even issues. So you would find that there are people who would act like this. It is your job as Wikipedians to stop this.--188.8.131.52 01:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I had to check this out after reading about it in a local newspaper. What poppycock and inaccurate reporting is this? Why is it that only the 'not-too-pleasant' bits of information are being posted here? What about the extremely high levels of employment the country now enjoys? The current boom we are experiencing? The efficient management of this economical windfall that is taking place?
While other governments chose to fatten their own pockets, the PNM under Mr. Manning have prudently continued to chart a way forward for the country via it's 20/20 Vision. Integrity is at it's highest ever for a government. Persons found with a HINT of corruption have resigned whilst under investigation. Other governments however chose to deal with such persons by staunch defense of their character and by making accusations of 'discrimination'. Please Wikipedia readers, and contributors, be wary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trini 07 (talk • contribs)
- Anyone can edit these articles - they are written and maintained by volunteers. If you don't like them, improve them. That's all. Guettarda 13:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Flaws in your argument
I'm not trying to be confrontational here but there are a few flaws in your arguments. Firstly the employment levels are projected as being high due to the URP and CEPEP programs which are actually very counter productive to society and not really a permanent form of employment. The efficient management of the economic boom is your opinion and not that of the Central Bank Governor and other heads large financial institutions in Trinidad and Tobago who have been constantly saying that this current Government's wanton spending is driving inflation to new heights.
As for your claims of the heights of integrity portrayed by this Government under Patrick Manning. You probably didn't know this, but Patrick Manning was given written information about the wrong doings (corruption and bribery) of two of his cabinet ministers. He kept that information to himself for over a year. Only when members of the Opposition party got a hold of this information from the informer and brought it up in Parliament, only then were charges laid against the two PNM cabinet ministers. What part of this is integrity I ask you?
There have been clear cases of discrimination under the PNM as well. Firstly, charges were laid against the then Opposition leader, who is of East Indian descent, for not declaring all of his assets. There were OVER ONE HUNDRED (100) other public officials who were guilty of the same crime and none of them were charged. Clearly a case of discrimination. Secondly, only last week, an activist against crime who is of East Indian descent was arrested and humiliated (stripped and made to squat in the police station). He was held under a trumped up charge of terrorism but later charged with a minor offence of distributing flyers without the Name and Address of the Printer/Publisher. There are many organisations currently doing that including Carnival Fete Promoters (it should be noted that we are now in the Carnival season in Trinidad and Tobago so there will be lots of these Carnival Fetes being promoted) and even the PSA (Public Services Association) yet none of these organisations/persons have been arrested and charged. Discrimination again in its highest forms. There is currently an imbalance in the Public Service which has been the result of years and years of discrimination against the East Indian community of Trinidad and Tobago which currently makes up close to 45% of the population. This Government's current housing plan under Patrick Manning has also been plagued with discrimination as mostly people of African descent have been the beneficiaries of Government housing. Slickk 15:23, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Feb 2 I have to admit that after reading the biography of Manning on this website I lost all respect for Wikipedia as a reliable source of information. The article was extremely biased and the picture of Manning has to be at least 20 years old; the man does not even wear glasses anymore. Wikipedia should not allow itself to be used as a vehicle for political propaganda and the individuals who wrote the original article should be ashamed for taking such a cheap shot.
I cannot believe you people. Everybody else can write non-biased biographies of important historical figures but this person has to embarass The Republic of Trinidad & Tobago by writing an article that reflects an uneducated and complete misunderstanding of the neutrality policies of Wikipedia; and total disregard for educational standards all over the world. Wake up! The more the citizens of Trinidad & Tobago greedily fight against each other for power, the more we will be trampled upon by the world's super powers. To the person who wrote this article and to those who endorse it - go take a class on how to write a factual paper- it is unfair that this article will wrongly label Trinidad & Tobago natives as uneducated and ignorant savages. If we are EVER going to reach 1st world status we need to work together. Being a Trinidad & Tobago native living in a foreign country has made me realise - if we don't care about our country and each other as ONE united front - then there isn't anyone who is going to care when we kill each other fighting for something that we could very well share. Quit using Wikipedia for your political agendas - that's what self-created, topic related, political forums are for.184.108.40.206 00:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Typical PNM. Why you blaming us? That is MANNING's reputation! Its not like we make this up!
Instead of complaining about bias..
Instead of complaining about the obvious bias in this entry I have tried to clean it up a little. It still covers the same topics as before, but I have tried to make it more balanced. It is questionable, however, to what extent some of these issues should be in an entry on Patrick Manning, rather than the PNM party. Hope my edits will not offend "either side"! DaxDriver 23:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
There has been quite a lot of vandalism to this article recently. Note that you can use the templates at WP:UTM to give warnings when vandalism is done. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 00:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's driven by local politics. Don't anticipate any improvement soon, but hopefully people will get bored. Guettarda (talk) 00:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section., and are posted here for posterity. Following
|I Think this article should be removed as Kirk Meighoo whom the article references is widely known as a strong critic of the PNM and Patrick manning and is not capable of giving a neutral, unbiased, or truthful biographical account of the PNM or Mr. Patrick Manning. Wikipedia is opening up it self to litigation by having such suggestive and unproven facts posted on its website. Case in piont is the line which states, "the Prime Minister still plans to build at least three aluminium smelter plants in the south western peninsula of Trinidad under the guise of industrialisation". I strongly suggest Wikipedia provides support for this statement or do some immediate editing.220.127.116.11 20:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)|
Last edited at 20:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 02:22, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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