Talk:Paul's Case

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Hi all, I will be adding some of the major themes that are presented in Paul's Case on to the article Priyankirana26 (talk) 18:05, 17 April 2017 (UTC) There are two "Plot Summary" sections on this Talk page. I think they should be combined. Dumas1110 (talk) 21:26, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with this, the "Plot summary" sections should be combined. I believe that having two of them makes it a little confusing for the readers. Priyankirana26 (talk) 19:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Heading[edit]

I believe the second quote from the Overview section is unnecessary in this article. Also, there is no section for various analyses of the story, and the possibility that Paul's character might be gay is barely mentioned. There is also no section dedicated to any criticisms that this story has faced. Michaelazaffino13 (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I one-hundred percent agree with this post. The possibility of Paul's character being homosexual is barely mentioned in the story. Jmont6 (talk) 21:16, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
I also agree with this post. There are many different theories on who Paul really was so I certainly agree with the possibility of Paul being homosexual. Good observation. Lmuraskin18 (talk) 17:13, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree, I believe this observation was made due to the time this story took a place. A time, where homosexuality was entirely frowned upon and led to a number of suicides and hate crimes. However, there is no direct evidence stating that he was indeed homosexual.ChristienOlivera418 (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Writing style/ New Section[edit]

The plot summary reads weird. The plot summary is poorly worded and needs to be more concise so that the summary is easier to understand.

Also a section for analysis on themes would be beneficial. Here you can talk about Paul's sexuality or the reasons for him killing himself. Also in themes, there can be a discussion about the red carnation he wears in his jacket or the dangers of money. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.254.26.2 (talk) 21:15, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree that the plot summary does need to be changed so that it becomes short and to the point. I believe making this change would allow readers to better understand the plot summary by including more details about Paul.JCava2 (talk) 16:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I enjoyed the plot summary. Good work Pat otoole (talk) 17:23, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
I agree that the plot summary should include more details about Paul, especially because he is the protagonist. It is important to know as much about Paul as possible.Ecarbs20 (talk) 20:57, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Overview/Analysis[edit]

Overview and summary have very similar information and it may be beneficial to change the overview or remove it completely. Also, it would be good to add a bit of analysis or information on Paul's character and personality, which are important aspects of the story as a whole.

The overview/analysis was very is very good because it brings background information about the setting during the time the story takes place. Ehewe1 (talk) 19:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
The Overview and the plot summary I agree are very similar in text; it is quite confusing for a reader to follow along. There is also an example of using direct wording from the text with the use of quotations. Bpalm3 (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I think it may be better to give a more general description in the overview rather than get rid of it completely. Ecrupi (talk 13:25, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

In regards to the last quote in this section, it is unclear how the citation relates to the quote. PSahi1 (talk) 20:09, 5 April 2017 (UTC)≈ ≈

I am editing the first sentence in the overview to remove the comma splices. PSahi1 (talk) 19:56, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I would suggest saying that Paul committed suicide not only because he ran out of money, but more because he had to go home with his father. He hated his family life, and the place he grew up in. Jmazr1 (talk) 21:50, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Not credible Sources[edit]

You would need to state who the critic is instead of simply saying “another Critic” - Another critic reads it an exploration of Cather's belief in the "irreconcilable opposition" between art and life." put specifically who is saying that to prove that the speaker is credible and trustworthy. Nicoleritsick22 (talk) 17:37, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

When quoting directly from the story you need to cite where the quote came from even if it is one or two words. Also when stating a critic, you can't say "another critic." That makes the statement a non reliable source. Jmont6 (talk) 21:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

The sentence that begins "Another critic..." has a note number at the end. This number refers you to a reliable source. This practice is acceptable. Oeparker1 (talk) 04:13, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Add more information[edit]

Add Info into the plot summary – describe the poor relationship that Paul and his father went through AKA when he entered the basement he thought his father might walk in with a gun and possibly kill him. That is an important part to the reason Paul is so messed up. Nicoleritsick22 (talk) 17:39, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I added information on Paul wanting to live a lavish life. Jswen1 (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
I agree. I think if would be beneficial to talk not only about how Paul was afraid his father might accidentally kill him. But that if his father didn't kill him that he might regret it someday. PSahi1 (talk) 20:08, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Try talking about why Paul decided to jump in front of a train rather than shoot himself with the gun he already had. Did he want to be more noticed if he jumped in front a train? Did he want to make a "dramatic exit"? Was this the only way he could get attention? Jmont6 (talk) 21:34, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree Paul may have been trying to be dramatic but jumping in front of a train may have also been connected to his father. Paul very much disliked his father and knew he had and would use a gun so maybe he killed himself this way because he did not want to be like his father.Tylerassetta1 (talk) 19:26, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
In "Homosexual Identities in Willa Cather's 'Paul's Case'" the author argues that the reason for the suicide by train is that Paul is "modernity's victim." Other critics have other theories. Dumas1110 (talk) 21:25, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

More information about Paul's father would be useful, as their relationship could have motivated Paul's suicide. Pat otoole (talk) 16:40, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Added more about Paul's suicide but information still needs to be added about his father. Will wonti (talk) 19:31, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

More information part2[edit]

- Mention that his mother died in Colorado - I feel as if the parts that did not stick out to me as much, such as the “Burghers” part, was written in a whole paragraph while his love for theater and also his lies that got him kicked out of Carnegie Hall and school officially.

His mother dying was mentioned with his teachers and is a big reason that paul might feel alone or act the same way. I don't really believe that smile of his comes altogether from insolence; there's something sort of haunted about it. The boy is not strong, for one thing. I happen to know that he was born in Colorado, only a few months before his mother died out there of a long illness. There is something wrong about the fellow." [1] Nicoleritsick22 (talk) 17:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

  1. ^ [1]
I believe that after Paul's mother died his father paid no attention to him and maybe that is why there is something wrong with him.Jmont6 (talk) 21:19, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

More information part 3[edit]

The writing of the plot summary doesn't flow well, and should be reworded. Also, it's important to note that Paul isn't sure if it would have been worse if his father shot him, or didn't shoot him and then one day regretted it. Larnold624 (talk) 02:57, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

New Section[edit]

I feel that there is a need for a section that reviews Paul's psychological state of mind. This would also include the thoughts and interpretations about Paul's mental state as the story progresses. I believe that this sections inclusion of psychology would improve on the understanding of Paul's actions and train of thought as he exhibits different signs of mental illness throughout the story.Does anyone else also believe this? JCava2 (talk) 17:04, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I believe that all Paul wanted was attention. He had no friends in school, his mother passed when he was a couple months old, and his father neglected him. I do believe there is something wrong with Paul's mental state. Jmont6 (talk) 21:23, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
A new section for his mental state would greatly bolster the overall understanding of Paul and his decision to take his life when reading the article. Amend6 (talk) 22:37, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
I agree that there should be a section that discusses Paul's psychological state. There are many instances in the story that allude to Paul having a mental illness all of which likely contribute to his suicide. PSahi1 (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I agree there is something wrong with Paul's state of mind. The narrator in the book wrote that there was a "dark place into which he dared not look," which could signify depression or some sort of paranoia (Cather, 543). There is always the possibility of Paul having co-occurring mental disorders, such as depression and narcissistic personality disorder, which would explain his attention-seeking behavior. --Cwhel1 (talk) 16:09, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Plot Summary[edit]

The plot summary starts off by stating that Paul is getting suspended from his high school, but the story actually starts off with Paul already being suspended for a week, and he is there to fight this suspension. Also, the sentence that begins with "He enjoys..." is worded strangely and can be improved to sound better. Mkade1 (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Over-all I think the plot summary is good; but it could use some re-wording. I also think it should be included why Paul's father made Paul quit school and his job ushering to get a full time job. I think that information is important when talking about why Paul stole the money from the company and ran away to New York City. Hbran21 (talk) 21:16, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

The plot summary is well written, but should include the reoccurring reference to the "red carnation" that Paul carries around. In the end he sees that his carnation is wilted and dying, resembling him someway. Maybe instead of it being in the plot summary it could be in a section about symbolism throughout the story. DylanAponte (talk) 04:28, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Where in the story does it mention Paul buying a gun his first day in New York? The only thing I see about him having one there is in the paragraph starting "His father was in New York..." It mentions the gun in the sentence: "It lay on his dressing-table now; he had got it out last night when he came blindly up from dinner, but the shiny metal hurt his eyes, and he disliked the looks of it".Emilydean1 (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
The sentence right before the one you posted ("The thing was winding itself up; he had thought of that on his first glorious day in New York, and had even provided a way to snap the thread") seems to indicate that the "way to snap the thread" is the gun. Dumas1110 (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

The plot summary doesn't cover all of the plot in which is the main point of the story. The information is insufficient and not helpful to a reader that has little to no knowledge on the story itself. I think that the plot summary would be more beneficial if the bond between Paul and his father was mentioned, if the role Paul plays around other kids his age is mentioned, and Paul's emotional state as well. Alang22 (talk) 19:31, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I feel that this sentence [Being able to live by prospering was his only hope and dream.] in the plot summary could have a better flow. PSahi1 (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

More information part 4[edit]

I think that in the plot summary we should mention that Paul sneaks out of his house, and he constantly lies to his father because he is afraid to face him. Also, he does not have a good relationship with his father or his sisters. Kimcaaa (talk) 21:19, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

More information added to the page[edit]

I am going to add to the psychological understanding section that Paul was referred to as "the motherless boy" and how hard it can be for a child to be labeled like that by the community. Kimcaaa (talk) 20:26, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Paul's Father[edit]

Added some information on Paul's father into the Plot Summary — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcana1 (talkcontribs) 15:01, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Plot Summary word changes[edit]

Changed some words in the Plot Summary — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcana1 (talkcontribs) 15:04, 17 April 2017 (UTC)