Talk:Pauline epistles

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Theological harmony?[edit]

Any basic study of supposedly parallel texts from disputed and undisputed letters yield theological differences - hence why the authorship is disputed. I think the article is innaccurate in that respect. Can we have some discussion on this? --Shanneranner 04:50, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Forged" Letters?[edit]

I am concerned about the use of the word "forgery" in this article. I think it is an inaccurate word to use. The letters whose authorship is unclear are referred to in scholarly circles as the disputed letters. In the ancient world it was common practice to write under another name in order to have credibility for the writing. Calling them "forgeries" is projecting back our current cultural values and understandings onto a time when the same values weren't held. Discussion? --Shanneranner 04:50, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Infallibility of the Epistles[edit]

I am not a Christian, but I am attempting to approach a better understanding of the beliefs of my Christian family and friends and Christianity in general. Please take this comment in that context. It's not meant as an attack, merely a request for clarification.

Should the Pauline Epistles be considered Biblically infallible? If they are--why? They were written by an apostle of Jesus, and the apostles were neither divine nor infallible. As far as I understand, they are not considered to be "revealed" writings in any way, merely Paul's own interpretation of early Christianity. If this perception is incorrect, can anyone correct it?

If they are not considered Biblically infallible--why are they so often cited in Biblically-based arguments, against such things as homosexuality and premarital sex? -- 16:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure "infallible" is the right word here. Some Christian groups (Fundamentalists and Evangelicals, particularly) hold that the Bible is "inerrant" and that every word of it is literally true. I would say, though, that this is a majority. Many groups hold that the Bible is infallible only on matters of faith. In terms, of for instance, matters of science or history, the Bible can fall into error, but in terms of how Christianity works, it is infallible. With either of these beliefs, though, the letters of Paul are considered to be authoritative on matters of faith. I do think there are some groups who treat the words of Jesus as primary, and all other Biblical text as secondary (this used to be, at least, the Southern Baptist tradition, iirc). Paul very clearly lays out his position that his writings are based on revelation - his revelation of Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus, specifically. In any event, I don't think there's any reason to treat the Epistles as any less authoritative than any other part of the Bible, unless you take that "Jesus first/rest of Bible second" position. john k 16:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The immediately preceding commentator speculates that claiming every word of the Bible to be "inerrant" is a majority position among Christians. However, I think it is clear that he meant "minority position." Christianity encompasses a huge and diverse universe of different sects and doctrines. Word-for-word inerrancy is an extreme view, held by relatively few. "Infallible only on matters of faith" is much more popular. Among academic Biblical scholars, however, both types of infallibility/inerrancy are fairly unpopular. Most scholars will reject some passages entirely, for a variety of reasons. And even those in the "inerrant" camp will disagree with each other on interpretations.
Of course, many Christians say that those who disagree with them are not "really" Christian. Those who maintain this position can claim unanimity, among Christians, for their own views, even though this claim is silly.
In any case, I believe it is universally agreed that Jesus of Nazareth, personally, wrote nothing -- or at least nothing that survives to the present day. That being the case, no human author of any part of the Bible is divine or infallible (not the apostle Paul, not the Gospel writers, not Moses to whom the Pentateuch is traditionally credited, not the Old Testament prophets, etc.) and no one even claims that those human authors are infallible. The claim is that the process of composition was divinely inspired. The claim of "inerrancy" (or, in the more moderate view, Biblical authority) applies to the text itself (as composed, edited, canonized, translated, etc.) and not to the human authors. Paul is neither more nor less authoritative than the human authors of other parts of the Bible. Paul (talk) 18:55, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Academic classification of the Epistles[edit]

I've read a lot on Paul and I've never seen the epistles classified in the way that section does. It looks like pure WP:OR and I propose deleting the entire section. Rocksong 07:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've deleted it. (p.s. I'm the same person as User:Rocksong). Peter Ballard 00:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

More information[edit]

This article seems to have insufficient detail for those who are not already familiar with the letters. A brief summary of what is actually contained in the letters without having to go to the page for each individual letter would be helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ff11 (talkcontribs) 21:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Prison epistles[edit]

There is a group of epistles known as the prison epistles. It would be interesting if we could have sourced material on that. ADM (talk) 23:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Concur: Shouldn't be hard to find Duke Ganote (talk) 10:47, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistency in dating of epistles[edit]

On the current Wikipedia page, Romans is given a later date of composition than Philippians. On the two Wikipedia pages dedicated individually to Romans and Philippians, however, Romans is given an earlier date of composition than Philippians. I recommend that this inconsistency be resolved, perhaps by increasing the accuracy of dating across Wikipedia pages or by including wider dating intervals across pages in order to highlight the level of uncertainty in dating. (talk) 03:58, 16 September 2010 (UTC)PaulineDatingObserver

"Pauline Epistles" is a proper noun, both words should be capitalized[edit]

I.e., Pauline Epistles, not Pauline epistles. (talk) 16:53, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality issue?[edit]

Why this WP:POV markup? Any specific reason that we can observe to improve the article? The article is as far as I can estimate as neutral and objective as a dusty desert, since it is essentially a list of academic opinions and references to those academic opinions. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 08:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above. I think most of the Christian related Wikipedia articles have some POV issues, but I didn't see any in this article particularly in the section where the tag was placed (Authenticity of the epistles). Without specific information about what the person that posted the POV tag was concerned with, I think the template should be removed.--Davefoc (talk) 00:30, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

No Presentation of the Original Manuscripts Transmitting the Text of the Epistles[edit]

There's no discussion at all of the original manuscripts in which the texts of the Epistles have been preserved and used by the first Codices of the NT. When and where were the Epistles first discovered by historians? Serious overlook for a scholarly article. --ROO BOOKAROO (talk) 08:05, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

scholarly article at wikipedia? You are joking Wikipedia exists to attack Christian, the Bible and Jesus. Odd that the liberal cowards won't do the same thing to the Koran - Hummm are they afraid or do they just hate the Bible - You decide.

Authorship of Hebrews[edit]

There is still no consensus among contemporary NT scholars. One notable scholar who makes a strong case for Pauline authorship is Robert L. Reymond in his Systematic Theology. DFH (talk) 17:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Maybe you should read some REAL CHRISTIAN books and not the ones by Anti-Bible bigots. Oh I forget, if the author doesn't hate the Bible then according to the Christaphobic bigots at Wikipedia, they are not REAL Scholars.

PS I see my other post was removed because I had the nerve to criticize Liberalpedia-- (talk) 23:25, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

possibly editorial, otherwise incomplete:[edit]

"This ordering is remarkably consistent in the manuscript tradition, with very few deviations." If there are deviations, what is remarkable about the consistency? If the remarkableness of just how few deviations there are is of academic/encyclopedic interest then some part of the sentence deserves further explanation and/or citation of a standard by which "remarkably" is reached (such as a treatment/comparison of the contemporary manuscript tradition[s]). Otherwise, "remarkably" smacks of editorializing. TheNuszAbides (talk) 04:17, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

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