Talk:Peganum harmala

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Untitled[edit]

This page should be moved back to syrian rue. 9,000 hits for harmal -tell and 55,000 for syrian rue on google. i've never heard it called harmal. --Heah (talk) 22:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. Harmal is what it is called in my botanical textbooks (they don't even mention 'Syrian Rue'). I consider such sources far more authoritative than a google hit count, which is widely cited on wikipedia as a poor means for making decisions. Harmal is also unique, distinct, and avoids confusion, while 'Syrian rue' could mean any species of Ruta found in Syria, not necessarily this species - MPF 23:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

botanical textbooks do not and are not meant to specify what a plant is most commonly known as. they are, after all, botanical textbooks. manual of style naming conventions clearly state that "the most common name" should be used when naming an article about a person or thing. in this sort of situation, the google hit count is clearly a more reliable indicator of what this plant is most commonly known as. when discussed outside the realm of botany- as it is, at least partially due to its use as an analog to ayahuasca- it is virtually always "syrian rue".

The page should clearly state (as it does) that Syrian rue is not a true species of rue, which should be enough to ward off any possible confusion. even in the unlikely event that someone typed in "syrian rue", curious as to what sort of rue grew in syria, the page would say that p. harmala is not a species of rue.

I beleive we had this conversation some time ago, and i deferred; however, i wanted to bring it up again and so left a message on the talk page so it could be discussed. its nice to discuss things before they are done, particularly when there is obviously a disagreement as to what should be done. I also brought it up at the WikiProject on Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants talk page, where it was agreed that the page should be moved back to Syrian rue. I'm moving it back pending discussion. (It's polite to discuss things first, ya know?)

--Heah (talk) 02:18, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible there should be two separate articles here -- one for botanists about the plant 'Harmal' and one for the Psychedelics,etc. project on the entheogenic use of the plant under the title Syrian Rue, with a link between the two? It seems like both articles serve somewhat distinct needs. Kit 03:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The manual of style naming conventions|naming conventions also clearly state "Convention: Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things" (my emphasis). Syrian Rue, as a title, clearly conflicts with the standard meaning of Rue as Ruta species. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)#Don't overdo it: "In cases where the common name of a subject is misleading (For example: "tidal wave" would be a misleading title since these phenomena have nothing to do with tides), then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative (tsunami, for example)". This is clearly relevant to this instance.
Kit's idea has some merit, though personally, I think it makes more sense to keep the species and its uses together (as in the vast majority of plant pages); other similar examples (e.g. Coffee/Coffea) deal with vastly longer pages where combining would make the page too long. When there's less than half a page in total, splitting it isn't the best thing to do
PS "(It's polite to discuss things first, ya know?)", yeah, true, but I never saw the posting about it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life . . . - MPF 11:22, 9 November 2005 (UTC)


Harmal/Harmala is the species. Syrian Rue is a type within the Harmala species. The Family is Zygophyllaceae, the Genus is Peganum and the Species is Harmala and within that is a type called Syrian Rue. Now, how you want to name this article depends on what it is focusing on, the Species or the type which is called Syrian Rue?--87.194.3.52 01:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Application[edit]

Harmal is a drug with a real good effect. If you take a tea.spoon of this semen, the effect starts about an half hour later. The taste is very bitterly, so you have to mix it with honey or other similar food. The ectasy will happen for 6 hours or so. The beginning is suddenly, while the end is slowly. The mood is in this good till euphoric and you can laugh very often. By the next day you don`t have any side effects. But caution! It is a MAO-inhibitor. So you can not eat everything, before you swallow the semen. Following food you can not eat: cheese, alcohol, especially red wine, pineapples, yoghurt, bananas, chocolade, hewrrings and sauerkraut. All this things you have to avoid absolutely, else you get ill or even you can die! --Fackel 21:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

You forgot to mention soy sauce. Dont go out for thai food that night. I once had thai food for dinner, not knowing it was cooked in the same pan that used soy sauce, and then I took a teaspoon of ground syrian rue 4 hours later. I had an extremely bad panic attack, linked to the overproduction of epinephrine in my body.--67.71.178.193 03:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Farkel, I'm guessing you're not a native english speaker.. Semen in english refers to the fluid that contains sperm. Seed would be the word to use here.--Eloil 18:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Fackel I think you have no experience in the stuff. I have, once orally (made tea of the seeds) and never again. It was a bit like food poisoning, with blurred 'draggy' vision followed by some quite fantastic projectile vomiting. It was not caused by mixing it with anything else. It was vile. 78.144.71.167 (talk) 02:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Alkaloids[edit]

There is inconsistency in this section: "The seeds contain about 2-6% alkaloids, most of which is harmaline." and above that it says "Harmine 1.84%, Harmaline 0.25% and Harmalol 3.90%" so according to that there's at least two more dominant alkaloids than harmaline. They have different references and to me ScieceDirect seems a better source than Amazing Nature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahabvihrea (talkcontribs) 23:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Soon to be delegalized in Poland[edit]

This substance is on the list of 18(?) Substances soon to be delegalized (criminalized) in Poland:

Argyreia nervosa - Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, Banisteriopsis caapi - Ayhuasca, Calea zacatechichi - Dream Herb, Catha edulis - Khat, Echinopsis pachanoi - San Pedro (cactus), Piper methysticum - Kava Kava, Leonotis leonurus - Wild Dagga, Mimosa tenuiflora - Jurema, Mitragyna speciosa - Kratom, Nymphaea caerulea, Peganum harmala, Psychotria viridis, Rivea corymbosa, Salvia divinorum, Tabernanthe iboga - Iboga, Trichocereus peruvianus, Benzylpiperazine - BZP, JWH-018 - Spice

the bill (author of the bill: Grzegorz Sztolcman?) was accepted by Polish Sejm (for - 404, against - 5, and 2 abstent)[1] [2], Polish Senat [3] and the President of Poland [4].


Ttg53 (talk) 14:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

ITIS reference is not good[edit]

The ITIS page that is currently cited for common names is not a good source. It gives no information about what language each of those names is. Names in other languages would be handled by the interwiki and wiktionary. (There is another problem too, the ITIS page says that the distribution of the plant is North America, but this page says Eurasia.) I'm deleting the common names section. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:21, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested Move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Peganum harmala Mike Cline (talk) 18:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)



HarmalPeganum harmala – There was a previous discussion regarding titling this page Harmal or Syrian Rue. The scientific name appears to be more widely WP:UCN used than either of these vernacular names. Per WP:FLORA, scientific names are preferred for most articles about plants.Plantdrew (talk) 02:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Support - no single English name. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Support this is a logical move. JoJan (talk) 14:34, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Support as the most commonly used name, and the one used most widely geographically. First Light (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merged Esfand svanta[edit]

No discussion occurred about the proposal to merge these two pages. Since they are clearly both about the same plant species, I have replaced Esfand svanta with a redirect to this page. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 18:57, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

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Iranian Red[edit]

The red color is known as "Iranian red", not Persian red. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzziiiaaa (talkcontribs) 04:15, 1 July 2017 (UTC)