Talk:Pelican

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Source?[edit]

I would like very much to know where the source is that says "From Fossil record it is known Pelicans have been around for over 40 million years" I am very curious ? thank you.

Pelicans bringing newborn babies to the expecting mothers[edit]

why there is no mention of this popular myth that Pelicans bring newborn babies to the expecting mothers. what created this myth? and why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.47.44 (talk) 10:18, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

The Pelican Can! Dfrg.msc 02:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

---Why are they so big?

What about pelican excrement? I can't seem to find ANY information on wikipedia about pelican droppings!

--- I saw a video of a pelican eating a pigeon: http://break.com/index/pelican_tries_to_eat_a_pigeon.html is this normal? Xaerocool 08:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Age of pelicans[edit]

There is nothing in the article which states the typical life-span of the various sub-species. According to the "International Movie Database", one of the pelicans in the Australian movie "Storm Boy" (1976) died in 2009, making him about 33 years old when he died. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076767/trivia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrdlu junction (talkcontribs) 06:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Image of Australian Pelican[edit]

I saw this (bottom) image at commons, and changed this:

120-px

with this:

120-px

As somebody who shoots first, and asks afterwards, anyone who disagrees with this change? Delta TangoTalk 03:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh great photos! Zomputer 21:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Pelican eats pigeon[edit]

Times on lineAnemoneProjectors (talk) 08:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

BBC 67.32.139.50 13:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this behaviour is as rare as some would have you believe. I have personally seen an Australian pelcan trying to eat ducklings. There are also TWO separate pigeon eating videos on YouTube and mutiple witness accounts from St James Park, some that involve eating ducks.

In episode 5 of BBC's Life series, it states and clearly shows Great White pelicans traversing in standard v-shape formation their usual feeding grounds and entering other bird colonies and eating unsupervised chicks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-BjDE5yJi4&feature=related 69.196.130.224 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:02, 4 October 2010 (UTC).
Having said that, these are pinioned captive birds in artificial settings. Of the three species I've seen in the wild, I've never seen any incidence of predation other than on fish. jimfbleak 06:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Second video here

How is the pelican protected from damage to its throat and stomach? As a layman, I would have assumed a considerable risk of scratching, possibly even perforation, by the claws and beak of the pigeon (ducks are likely less problematic.)188.100.204.101 (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Photo[edit]

I replaced the photo because I foun a cuter one. Hope no one minds. If you do feel free to revert me. I wont take it personally. Zomputer 02:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Cannibalism[edit]

I thought that the old myth about pelican mothers letting their chicks eat them arose because someone saw chicks feeding from the mother's bill and assumed they were eating the mother's mouth itself. I read it in a book, anyway. Brutannica 22:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC) should it be noted that alot of pelicans eat other birds...alot look it up on youtube —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.100.164.44 (talk) 00:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

New Photo[edit]

I changed the main photo after taking this new back-lit one at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. (5D, 400mm 2.8) http://www.pbase.com/ahuse/image/75923093

Is this true?[edit]

In this article, it mentions that pelicans are found on all continents but Antarctica. Is this true??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.166.221.182 (talk) 20:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes, Peruvian in SAm, Brown and American White in NAM, Spot-billed in Asia, Great White and Dalmatian in Europe, Pink-backed in Africa, Australian in ... jimfbleak 05:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

pelican in mythology[edit]

"In medieval Europe, the pelican was thought to be particularly attentive to her young, to the point of providing her own blood when no other food was available. As a result, the pelican became a symbol of the Passion of Jesus and of the Eucharist. It also became a symbol in bestiaries for self-sacrifice, and was used in heraldry ("a pelican in her piety" or "a pelican vulning (wounding) herself"). Another version of this is that the pelican used to kill its young and then resurrect them with its blood, this being analogous to the sacrifice of Jesus. Thus the symbol of the Irish Blood Transfusion Service (IBTS) is a pelican, and for most of its existence the headquarters of the service was located at Pelican House in Dublin, Ireland."

Okay, I wanted to edit this, but the page is protected. I was going to mention how the myth (as documented by J.L. Borges in his fantastic Book of Imaginary Creatures) describes how the pelican draws blood from his chest in order to restore the baby pelicans back to life, ratehr than providing her own blood when no other food was available. In some versions of the myth, the young pelicans were killed by snakes, in others, by the mother, but with the return of the male pelican, the blood was shed and the little baby pelicans sprung back to life.

What's the jive. Can someone edit it? I'll type in my reference when I get home. Stevehancock (talk) 16:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

migratory[edit]

I was surprised to find pelicans in Indianapolis, Indiana last weekend at Eagle Creek Park. I had no idea that they were migratory. The article makes no mention of these birds being migratory. There were some birders at the park who confirmed that these were indeed pelicans. I am no bird expert, just a photographer out looking for some good pictures. Here are some images:

--rogerd (talk) 02:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Not all the pelican species are migratory, but American White Pelican is. Take a look at that page, and why not add you excellent photos to it? Jimfbleak (talk) 06:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for helping me identify the sub-species. Again, I am no bird expert, but if I keep going to the park with my camera, I might become more knowledgeable. I have added the images to the gallery there. --rogerd (talk) 13:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

- Can someone edit the kleptoparasitism link? their appears to be a typo and this page is semi-protected. Thanks. Fastsince85 (talk) 17:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

done jimfbleak (talk) 05:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Disease that makes pelicans chest red[edit]

"the pelican used to suffer from a disease that left a red mark on its chest[citation needed]" was in the article. I am the original author. I heard about it on a guided tour of Durham Castle. But as can't find any reference to it this, I've removed is as a probable urban myth. If anyone finds a reference to such a disease, please re-insert the line. Mike Young (talk) 13:26, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Not a pelican..[edit]

The image from the Fuengirola Zoo in Spain on the left under Reproduction is not a pelican. It looks more like a stork of some kind. Someone find a new picture. :) Johnip86 (talk) 08:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Please Note[edit]

Pelican (R) is also a company which produces specialized carrying cases and lights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.116.32.206 (talk) 21:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

HALO Nerds?[edit]

"In the Halo series, the UNSC uses a drop ship named the Pelican."

How does this have anything at all to do with pelicans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.74.205 (talk) 18:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Pelican Limerick[edit]

Growing up in Australia 50 years ago, I loved pelicans and I remember this limerick:

    What a wonderful bird is the pelican,
    His beak can hold more than his belly can,
    He can hold in his beak
    Enough food for a week,
    But I'm damned if I know how the hell he can.

I don't know where it comes from so I don't think I can add it to the article. Also, I was a bit concerned it is not serious enough for the article, and I have never edited before. Anone else know more about this limerick and thinks it is worth adding to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.108.52.165 (talk) 07:27, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The last line is sometimes rendered as

"I'm darned if I know how the helican"

to provide an "eye-rhyme". Shrdlu junction (talk) 06:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

A marvelous bird is the pelican,
His bill holds more than his bellican.
He can hold in his beak,
Enough food for a week.
I'm damned if I know how the hellican.

I think the author was Ogden Nash

Too Old (talk) 06:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

File:PelicanMocheLarcoMuseum.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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pelican for is collaboration for May 2012[edit]

Nominated 29 March 2012;

Support:

  1. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:19, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
  2. MeegsC | Talk 02:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  3. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 03:25, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  4. Shyamal (talk) 05:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  5. Ornithodiez (talk)--Ornithodiez (talk) 10:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Comments:

To-do list[edit]

Right folks, list issues below and we can get cracking....Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:57, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Have added cladogram, but this really needs checking out, tweaking, and maybe removing, by someone who has better technical skills and taxonomic expertise than I do. Maias (talk) 13:11, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I have put together a rough speciesbox, based on information from the species articles, but it could do with some more input. Maias (talk) 04:09, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Don't forget to convert all units to imperial for our American readers. MeegsC | Talk 19:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Distribution section with map? Maias (talk) 08:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
The user Termininja makes great distribution maps.--Ornithodiez (talk) 10:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Lede expansion Maias (talk) 08:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Probably needs something about how oil spills and other pollutants affect pelicans. Snowman (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Definitely, and as a subsection in "Status and conservation".--Ornithodiez (talk) 10:53, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Probably needs subspecies included. Snowman (talk) 09:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
I have tried to clarify this in the table. All species except the Brown are monotypic, while the Brown Pelican subspecies are, I think, adequately covered in the species article. Maias (talk) 11:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Maias that might clutter things a bit, I get the impression its subspecies might be very similar to each other as well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:10, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
I think that mission out subspecies would be an omission. I recall that one of the subspecies is quite rare, which I think would be worth mentioning. Snowman (talk) 22:19, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't know about the conservation status of the subspecies but I agree that if one of them is threatened it would be worth mentioning in the status and conservation section. Maias (talk) 00:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
My problem with subspecies is that if we add a box for each it might make the whole look unbalanced as subspecies of brown pelican will make up a huge chunk of the list....and I am not sure if we have photos of all of them. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:39, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Damn, looking for overview stuff is tricky - has anyone got Handbook of the Birds of the World. Volume 1: Ostrich to Ducks? We need to get some overview/general info in. I can't find general comments applicable to all species easily looking thru journals....Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:44, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I've got HBW1; I'll have a look and see what we can add. MeegsC | Talk 15:59, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Parasites[edit]

Are we going to have a section for parasites? Rothschild lists leeches in vent and sometimes pouch, a specialised feather mite in the pouch, a pouch louse found in all pelicans and New World Cormorants, and bird malaria. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Also a pdf on parasites of the Am White, and several helminth articles. I'll add what I've got, just need a steer on placement 18:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I'd slot it in as a separate level 3 heading after Breeding. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Is this RS enough? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:22, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Looks like a national newspaper, so I'd say for a pictorial news item it is ok. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:33, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

predators[edit]

I found River Otter Predation on Brown Pelicans, anything else? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:37, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, pelicans are pretty big - can't imagine many critters predating them...Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
What about your big crocs? Also potentially vulnerable at nest sites to large carnivores. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:05, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Refs[edit]

I'm cleaning up refs, need a page number for HBW, also the two Moche refs Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:42, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Questions re: info[edit]

  • The article currently says "...darters, cormorants, gannets, boobies and frigatebirds are traditional members which have since been reclassified as Suliformes, while tropicbirds now have their own order, the Phaethontiformes." What isn't clear is whether tropicbirds were also "traditional members". The sentence structure seems to indicate they weren't, but I'm pretty sure they were — once upon a time. Updated in article.
Yes, tropicbirds used to be classified as Pelecaniformes. Maias (talk) 02:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Jobling's "Helm Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names" says nothing about pelecanus deriving from the Greek for axe. It says only that the word is from the Greek pelekan / pelekanos meaning pelican. Does anybody have a source for the axe thing? To me, this sounds unlikely, given the life history of the birds in question! MeegsC | Talk 00:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
agree about tropicbirds. Classical order always had them in. Will check other in a minute. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Damn damn damn, I can't find my Greek lexicon (house is a bloody mess....) Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Ha! No worries; we've got plenty of time to get it sorted... MeegsC | Talk 02:58, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
The book "Birds of the Ancient World A–Z" details this here. Doesn't sound likely that the axe root of pelican is correct. What do others think? MeegsC | Talk 16:25, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Right, the Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell & Scott has pelekan / pelekanos meaning either (I) the woodpecker, joiner-bird, or (II) the pelican. No pelekys "axe" mentioned or linked....Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
update - shall we lose the "axe" bit? Or search around a bit more? Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
  • In the fossil section, there's a sentence which reads "Its beak is almost complete." What the heck does that mean? Is the beak not quite like modern pelicans? Was part of the fossil missing? I realize it's a straight "take" from the abstract, but I think we need to be a bit more precise. Can anybody get access to the complete article? MeegsC | Talk 01:38, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I understand the sentence to mean that the fossil beak has almost no bits missing, so that it is unmistakeably a pelican beak. Maias (talk) 02:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
That was my interpretation as well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:12, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Do we need to provide references for measurements and descriptions, etc. in the table? MeegsC | Talk 02:19, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I put the measurements in the table from the species accounts. I think it probably should have refs. Maias (talk) 02:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC) added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:28, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Agreed/great. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:13, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • The article says pelicans aren't found on oceanic islands, but that's not entirely true; Brown Pelicans are abundant around the Galapagos Islands, for example. added. Casliber (talk · contribs)
Yes, the relevant sentence needs some tweaking. Maias (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Do we want to mention the New Zealand Pelican, which was described from sub-fossil bones? If so, where? HBW mentions it, but the linked website suggests it may not be a valid species. MeegsC | Talk 03:12, 3 June 2012 (UTC) added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:28, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
It is mentioned in the Australian Pelican article, which may suffice - unless someone else decides it is a valid species. The main difference is larger size. Maias (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I added NZ bit as it is a Recent latitudinal range extension. Not hugely important in htis seciton whether it is a species or subspecies as it is a holistic section about distribution of genus. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:12, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Is it correct to bold only the "Pelican" part of "Pelicans" in the first sentence? Looks pretty odd... MeegsC | Talk 13:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Totally agree and have changed it. An alternative would be to put the sentence into the singular - A pelican is... etc. Maias (talk)

Okay - what else before a communal love-in group nom at WP:GAN? I'll look at some formatting issues. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:28, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I've been through the refs fixing where I see problems, but some of the refs are suspect as RS, for example the Aquinas ref is to a blog. There are others where the existing ref could be improved, I'm sure I've got better sources for some of the European species' basic facts, may be worth others checking others Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:36, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Agree this is next step - tightening up referencing. Will get onto it tomorrow after some sleep....Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Damn - saw some bird buffing by new editors and got distracted. I did find another family treatment at the library - will compare to see what other overview stuff we might have missed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

A couple of questions:

  • Should the cladogram be boxed, or is it ok as is?
  • Should the measurements be standardised (e.g all metres v. all centimetres, or feet v. inches) or should they exactly reflect their sources? Maias (talk) 07:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Re cladogram - not too sure - I have no strong preference whether boxed or unboxed, to be honest. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Re measurements, good question - often the sources are sensible so is easiest just to follow them. I will think about this one. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I have HBW, but no other sourcing unfortunately......Probably need some mention of movement/migration after breeding, use (or lack of) voice, and something on various territorial displays....also anyone good with typesetting? Looks like there is too big a space between the Taxonomy header and the start of section text. Same with breeding subheader and Mythology header. I'm guessing that will be taken care of when the article is more or less complete, but thought I'd point it out. I'd do it, but I'm afraid I'd mess it up more than it is now!....Pvmoutside (talk) 01:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

weird, I'm not getting a gap under taxonomy header - am using ie and old boxey monitor...Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
I am not seeing such gaps myself, but I wonder whether it might be related to the above mentioned headers all having image files immediately after them somehow affecting the display on some systems. Maias (talk) 05:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
I can't see this either on a widescreen in FF or in Chrome. They had a Regents Park pelican swallowing a live pigeon on the TV again last night in a programme about London's wildlife Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:12, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, I've found some material on vocalisations and added, and replaced some refs with better ones - there are some more refs that would be better from books still...will try to get in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:30, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Couple of refs for embellishing heraldry here and here Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:43, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

I found a ref for the wood-chopping bit of the name origin, but it would be nice if someone has something a bit more scholarly. Maias (talk) 05:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that "AllAboutStuff.com" will count as a reliable source, particularly as it doesn't provide any source of referencing itself. MeegsC | Talk 05:55, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes - that's why I would be happier if someone could find something better. Presumably it is based on some other work, possibly one of biblical scholarship. Maias (talk) 06:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
I am still a little dubious - looked in an avian etymology book at the library and no mention of the axe thing. Will check in OED....Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:24, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
There is the online etymology dictionary here for the axe connection. Maias (talk) 06:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
There is also the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia here. Maias (talk) 06:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

More reliable sources needed...[edit]

Well we're moving closer to GAN, but some sourcing headaches remain....Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

  • I can't find an RS for the weight of the Pink-backed Pelican (as I reckon we'll be pulled up on oiseaux-birds.com)
  • Anyone have any info on Great White Pelicans eating other birds?
    • Mwema et al re Dassen Island? Maias (talk) 14:35, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Added above ref. Maias (talk) 00:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
    • HBW mentions several species "exceptionally" eating things other than fish, but nothing about GWP specifically. In fact, the Australian Pelican has apparently been most recorded eating "unusual" prey items, including crustaceans and a female Grey Teal and her ducklings. American White Pelicans have been recorded eating crayfish and salamanders, and at least one Pink-backed Pelican has been recorded eating figs! MeegsC | Talk 14:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
    • There's also this if you have access to Condor. Maias (talk) 15:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Thanks to Condor and the University of New Mexico, everybody on the planet has access to the journal (though not its most recent issues) here. The site also provides access to The Auk, The Wilson Bulletin, Journal of Field Ornithology and many other journals, all with the blessing of the various journals. It's a great service to those interested in birds! MeegsC | Talk 16:26, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Sora is a seful site. Have added info with ref. Maias (talk) 01:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Anyone recall adding info on the most abundant species?
    • I think much of that was added pre-collab; I suggest keeping all numbers with good refs but cutting out the speculation about most abundant species. Maias (talk) 14:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
      • I think I agree with you, - it's late here and I need to sleep on it.....Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:36, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I think we need a better ref for Aquinas segment..
  • I'm still struggling with the whole "Saint Jerome was the one who mistakenly named this species" section of the article. None of the etymological books I have say anything of the sort, and I find it rather hard to believe that the ancient Greeks would change their (former and apparently unknown) name for the pelican (i.e. everything I have says their word for the bird was pelikanus) based on his mistakenly applying "axe" to these birds! Do we have a more reliable source than a website that provides no references? If not, I'd say lose this bit for the RS references we have that say it derives from the ancient greek word for the bird! MeegsC | Talk 15:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I've got the OED now it mentions the axe but doesn't mention st jerome. mentions that word applied to both pelican (by Aristotle) and woodpecker. Also mentions Pelican Books....Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:25, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, since Aristotle predates Saint Jerome by many centuries, perhaps we can lose that particular bit of misinformation? And does OED say that the word is the same for both woodpecker and pelican, or that it shares the same root word? Something I read recently (have to check back through notes) says the latter... MeegsC | Talk 16:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Liddell and Scott (Gk Lexicon) has πελεκαν and πελεκἃς as alternate spellings - and then the two meanings (i) pelican (ii) woodpecker. It does not indicate if one word is which. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Removed Jerome ref as not RS. Maias (talk) 00:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

O-kay - can anyone see anything else to do before GAN....Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I guess it can go to GAN any time; reviewers' comments may be helpful. It would be nice to see more in the status, threats and conservation section; there could be stuff about vulnerability to oil spills, also about persecution for perceived competition with fishers and culling of American Whites in the US because of rec fishers' lobbying. There are a couple of things I might add, but don't let that hold up nomination if you think it is ready. Maias (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Added some stuff re persecution. Maias (talk) 04:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I've nommed it, mainly because I think that queries thrown up at this point can be readily addressed, and some fresh eyes might be good now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:35, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Another area is seasonal movements, especially North America and Europe. However, I do not have access to the main general sources. Maias (talk) 04:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting edit - I figure "genus" and "family" more in line with definition but what do others think. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you Cas — not much of the Wiki's bird taxonomy is clade-driven at the moment. MeegsC | Talk 18:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

NB: this might have some pop data, but my uni access is down for some reason...if anyone else wants to look. has some stuff which has been useful. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:46, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Anatomy stuff[edit]

One area we could expand on is anatomical features such as (duh) the bill - see here which strictly discusses the Australian Pelican but I guess is applicable to all. Also here mentioning air sacs under the skin. There must be some studies on these somewhere. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:36, 2 July 2012 (UTC) added air sac stuff - amazing. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

Toolbox

See WP:DEADREF
for dead URLs

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pelican/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MathewTownsend (talk · contribs) 18:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

review
  • There is a "citation needed" tag.
    • damn, forgot about that one. I'll do some searching...we are contemplating getting rid of material if we can't find a source comparing pelican species numbers..I've searched high and low and removed what I can't source. Have found some different bits and pieces to add instead. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
  • lede
  • "Long thought to be related to frigatebirds, cormorants, gannets and boobies, and tropicbirds, pelicans appear most closely related to the Shoebill and Hammerkop, and Long thought to be related to frigatebirds, cormorants, gannets and boobies, and tropicbirds, pelicans appear most closely related to the Shoebill and Hammerkop, and are classified in the same order (Pelecaniformes) with these unusual birds as well as ibises, spoonbills and herons. as well as ibises, spoonbills and herons."
  • - I'm not exactly clear what this sentence means. Is classified in the order of Pelecaniformes with these unusual birds (does this mean the Shoebill and Hammerkip) and ibises, spoonbills and herons are also classified there?
    • generally yes. Originally ibises, spoonbills and herons were in Ciconiiformes but are now known to be closer to Pelicans. So it is debatable whether they go in Pelecaniformes or in their own order Ardeiformes - the former seems to have more sway. I've reworded - is it clearer now? Can play with it some more if you think it needs more tweaking. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Etymology
  • "and was applied to both the pelican and the woodpecker,[3] itself derived from the word πελεκυς pelekys meaning "axe" - meaning woodpecker is derived from the word πελεκυς pelekys?
  • Is there any explanation for all this reclassification?

(will continue)

  • looks good, great pictures. Worst problem is the "citation missing" tag.

MathewTownsend (talk) 23:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

  • ok. tag and info has been removed. Very nice article.

GA review-see WP:WIAGA for criteria (and here for what they are not)

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose: clear and concise, respects copyright laws, correct spelling and grammar:
    B. Complies with MoS for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Provides references to all sources:
    B. Provides in-line citations from reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Main aspects are addressed:
    B. Remains focused:
  4. Does it follow the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Pass!

Wonderful article. MathewTownsend (talk) 19:27, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Brown Pelican population[edit]

I do have a question regarding population numbers of this species. In the article it quotes an estimate of 650,000, for which I have also found a reference here. However, the estimate is 250,000 for the US and Caribbean and 400,000 for Peru. Does the latter figure really refer to the Peruvian species now it has been split from the Brown? Or are there really 400K Browns in Peru as well as the Peruvian Pelicans there? Maias (talk) 02:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

I am suspicious it is both - the bird guides stated the Peruvian was more populous down there. Also saw a popo estimate for Peruvian - will fetch. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Update - this confirms it's both. The US gov't paper does not accept the split (interesting reason given in beginning of report), and gives numbers of thagus as anywhere up to possibly 1 million birds (though 400,000 is mentioned, along with low 200,000s for US subspp.) - so we can use to mention both taxa in this article I guess. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes. They take a conservative approach with the taxonomy; apparently noone has looked at the the difference between the Brown and Peruvian at the molecular level - at least not by 2009. Maias (talk) 00:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Rejigged now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Pelican tourism[edit]

I haven't seen anything about this globally but there are places like The Entrance, New South Wales where there is local pelican feeding for the tourists - does this occur elsewhere round the world that folks know and is it worth listing a few...or no. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Pelican feeding at The Entrance, New South Wales, which has become a tourist attraction.
There are several places around Australia - in most states - where organised feeding of pelicans take place as a tourist attraction. Not sure about elsewhere, though I think Browns are often fed casually around the US coast and, possibly, the Caribbean. It may be worth a mention in the status section. Maias (talk) 03:37, 2 August 2012 (UTC)