# Talk:Pi Day

WikiProject Mathematics (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mathematics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mathematics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Mathematics rating:
 B Class
 Low Importance
Field:  Geometry
WikiProject Festivals
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Festivals, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Festivals on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

## Regionalism

This article needs to include content about Pi Day outside the USA, or to be rewritten to make clear that it is a US-only event. I see that I'm far from the first to raise this issue, so I'm surprised to note the removal of the tag to that effect, which I've restored. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:09, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining why you tagged. I've re-added the American qualifier. If this event is truly worldwide, sources need to be provided to indicate that. --NeilN talk to me 14:22, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Hear Neil speak! It exists and is documented in some US contexts, and we are unlikely to be able to prove the negative that Pigs wants asserted: especially not, as math educators are probably capable of teaching the lesson plan titled "Look, you can list year, month, and day in a different order, without going insane!" -- especially since it
(a) gives students practice in distinguishing arbitrary conventions from laws of nature,
(b) saves educators the dog-work of "translating" materials from one set of conventions to another (and gives students an occasion to acquire that skill), and
(c) can help teach the fact that the lack of evidence for A, and presence of evidence for B, does not support the false syllogism "we know the existence of B produced evidence, and evidence for A is lacking, so A doesn't exist".
Sure, it'd be a good thing if someone can verify that it's done elsewhere, or that it's not, but if Pigs wants to see that happen, there's only one editor they can assign to do the needed research!
--Jerzyt 20:20, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
You assert that I am asking you to prove a negative. I am not. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:28, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
You could always mention International Pi Day as the 3rd of January, 4159. Of course, I'm making that up. But people in the 42nd century will surely find it a reason to celebrate. 154.20.88.158 (talk) 07:54, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

http://familymathcanada.org/pi-day/, http://o.canada.com/technology/brain-controlled-pie-game-trigger-epic-pie-catapult-in-geekiest-pi-day-celebration-ever, https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/13/pi-day-celebration-maths-fans-language-memory-contests, https://lnu.se/subjects/mathematics/1.17977/pi-day-celebrated-at-teknikum?l=en The problem isn't sources, it's that this is not a real thing, it's more a minor cultural phenomeno. If it was restricted to those who go month/date/year that fact is now irrelevant. Richardson mcphillips (talk) 13:42, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Although I do admit to being slightly irritated by the suggestion that the world celebrates some event based on the US m/d date format, I feel I also have to point out that the truly-international ISO 8601 date format (usually quoted as yyyy-mm-dd) would also yield this same day (March 14th).TonyP (talk) 14:36, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

## Pi time: duplication

I don't believe i introduced the duplication between sections of the hours/minutes/seconds version (that depends on the once/century match of the year: i'm pretty sure, now, that i assumed a discussion i read; up to and thru was the only one, and fixed problems in that (and others in that section) w/o noticing the second. Note that i added the conditional template that will change the tense from future to past, and if someone merges the two versions in the accompanying article, they should keep the feature of the conditional template. (Unless this editing drags on past pi day!)
--Jerzyt 13:00, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

When I was in college, one year we had a certain hard homework assignment due each Monday morning, that usually meant late night studying. We started a tradition (at least for one year) of cooking and eating pie at pi O'clock. That is, pi hours after midnight. Note that is about 3:08:30, and NOT 3:14:15. (Though the two are close enough that some might not notice.) Gah4 (talk) 09:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

## "If there were 31 days in April"

Someone is reverting the removal of " If the particular date existed, the holiday would be celebrated elsewhere on April 31, as America is the only country that uses the month-first date system", without even an edit summary let alone an explanation. This is obviously a ridiculous statement to include in the article, let alone the lede - speculation about what day Pi Day would fall on if the world used a different calendar is ludicrously marginal, and if we are going to include this kind of speculation why is "if April was longer" the only alternative calendar mentioned? Mogism (talk) 11:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, I vote for removing that part.

Removed again. It's irrelevant to the real world. It is original research. No matter what, it's asinine and doesn't belong. oknazevad (talk) 17:22, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Good point, Mogism: are there any calendars with 14 months? Perhaps then we could speculate about the third day of the fourteenth month (3. XIV ➔ 3.14)?
Come to think of it, newsagents often sell wall calendars that cover fourteen months! :-)p
But if we're allowed to be approximate, then we can make do with the third of January (3. I ➔ 3.1).
—DIV (120.17.40.5 (talk) 11:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC))
And if there were 78 days in February, we could have e day on February 78th. There aren't, and we don't. Many events are assigned a day of the year, unrelated to any numerical combination that one might think of. Gah4 (talk) 06:49, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

## Again US Biased

America is not a country... "... as America is the only country that ..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.116.53.193 (talk) 15:22, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Changed America to USA to make it more clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.37.116 (talk) 15:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Been removed, as it was false. The U.S. is not the only country that uses mm/dd format. oknazevad (talk) 20:03, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Do note that very few countries (e.g. U.S.) use the mm/dd/yyyy format (see Wikipedia). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.37.116 (talk) 18:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

For future discussions about format: Note that Wikipedia uses the format dd/mm/yyy (e.g. in "view history"). However, if the date is simply reporting the title of some newspaper or similar, keep the date format as the original. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.37.116 (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

No. See WP:MOSDATE. That's how Wikipedia does dates. oknazevad (talk) 18:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes. See WP:MOSDATE. Also do read the format in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi and also see next to your signature. Let us be consistent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.37.116 (talk) 01:37, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
You say "[...] see next to your signature." It reads "18:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)" What was that supposed to prove? —DIV (120.17.40.5 (talk) 09:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC))
The issue, IP, is what you're saying, and what WP:MOSDATE says, are completely different. Saying "Note that Wikipedia uses the format dd/mm/yyy" is inaccurate, as a reading of WP:MOSDATE makes clear. - Aoidh (talk) 00:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Many named days start from a celebration in the US, and spread to other parts of the world. Mother's_Day seems to be celebrated on different days in different countries. It seems to me that countries can celebrate Pi Day on March 14th, or another day if they happen to like another day. I suspect it won't become an official holiday, with offices closed and such, in many countries, though. Personally, I find the connection between the decimal representation of the mathematical constant and the month/day to be radixism, (that is, discrimination based on a specific radix) but find that March 14th is as good as any day. I suspect that it isn't popular enough to support different days in different countries, and that greeting card companies won't produce cards to send. Gah4 (talk) 20:26, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Sure, many days do. But also many days don't! Take for example the article for Kwanzaa: some countries may have picked it up, but most (numerically) haven't, and the article for Kwanzaa reflects that. "Pi Day" is predomonantly recognised in the USA, and so I have added that. It is obvious from not just the date format, but also all of the examples given in the article are USA-based. In fact I'd argue it's common knowledge. The restriction should be retained as the default until/unless somebody can provide some convincing proof from reputable sources. (And finding one primary school in Fiji that mentions it in their newsletter to parents, for example, would not constitute proof contradicting the statement that the Day is observed primarily in the U.S.A..)
—DIV (120.17.40.5 (talk) 09:26, 14 March 2018 (UTC))
Some goofball changed "primarily" to "pi-marily". This pun should have been reverted, but — in a misguided attempt to help — user Oknazevad deleted the clause entirely. I have therefore reinstated the restriction, but this time as:
"The day is predominantly recognised in the USA."
to try to avoid repetition of the pun. User Khajidha asserted that Wikipedia's "MOS is against using U.S.A.". Could be. But "United States" could be anywhere: United States of Mexico (Estados Unidos Mexicanos), perhaps? Any other nation of united states? Anyway, at least Khajidha took sensible action in 'amending' my change (not deleting it wholesale), and including some sort of rationale.
—DIV (120.17.40.5 (talk) 10:58, 14 March 2018 (UTC))
See above discussions on this. It's not just a US observance anymore. oknazevad (talk) 11:03, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
The usual translation of Mexico's formal name is United Mexican States and there is no other country with "United States" in its name. There's a reason the wikipedia page for the U.S.A. is titled United States. --Khajidha (talk) 11:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
MOS:USA --Khajidha (talk) 11:24, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

## Stephen Hawking's death

He died on this day in 2018 A.D.. ;-] 210.186.24.203 (talk) 13:52, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

With all due respect to Mr. Hawking, so what?--Khajidha (talk) 14:01, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Celebrating Albert Einstein's birthday has been part of the Exploratorium's celebration from the start (or close to it) and some say the connection has added to its popularity. Perhaps people will remember Hawking too.— Preceding unsigned comment added by StrayBolt (talkcontribs) 14:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Is the Einstein thing part of Pi Day celebrations or is it a different celebration that happens to be on the same day? Neither of these physicists has much to do with pi and I am failing to see any reason to mention them here. Especially Hawking, considering that his connection to the date has only just occurred.--Khajidha (talk) 14:22, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't define links; if culture adopts him into the celebrations and reliable sources mention it, then he could be mentioned here in the future. Until then, he's mentioned in the March 14 article.
Reliable sources are important. Today is also Steak and Blowjob Day; by the same arguments above that he should be mentioned due to passing away on the same day, we should mention him in that article too if we equally disregard reliable sources. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 14:29, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Hawking's death on Pi Day could be defined as a "notable" news event, WP:NOTABLENEWS, as readily seen by the plethora of worldwide reports today. I maintain it's notable concurrent with Einstein events, and offered this edit reverted by JohnBlackburne as trivia. But the concurrence of Hawking's death with Pi Day and Einstein's birthday is predictably long-lasting. Quoting from NOTABLENEWS: "...not non-notable per notnews solely because it is about a current event, nor does news coverage about an article’s subject make it non-notable. To the contrary, news coverage can only serve to increase the notability of an article." The section containing Einstein and Hawking could be titled, "Concurrent events". --Zefr (talk) 19:08, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
It’s just a coincidence. Many notable people have been born or died on March 14th, including other mathematicians and scientists. But we don’t list them in this article, they are listed in March 14, the appropriate article for such anniversaries.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 19:28, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
A notable unique coincidence with inevitable long-lasting reference, as is Einstein's birthday and the 3rd paragraph under Observance. --Zefr (talk) 21:06, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
We mention that this one place celebrates both at the samd time. We do not say that they are intronsically linked. And we don't talk about Einstein outside of that.--Khajidha (talk) 21:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
The Exploratorium has been celebrating both for a long time, here is their 1999 event. I recall Larry saying they have been together since (almost?) the beginning for them (but I misplaced the RS). I have another (misplaced) RS that mentioned that the connection probably helped Pi Day's popularity, a synergy. I'll post them when I come across them again. StrayBolt (talk) 03:48, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
"Celebrate Pi Day and Einstein's Birthday" shows that these are two things that happen to coincide, not teo parts of the same thing. Your own evidence argues against you. --Khajidha (talk) 10:43, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Impossible to argue they are not coincidental. I was arguing for the synergy. "But great ideas have a way of catching on and, before long, Pi Day was a fixture and a public celebration at the museum, and then by math lovers everywhere. It didn’t hurt the cause, he (Larry Shaw) often said, that March 14 also turned out to be the birthday of Albert Einstein."[1] StrayBolt (talk) 05:30, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
And the synergy with Einstein is covered as far as it is relevant. Any synergy with Hawking is just speculation at this point. --Khajidha (talk) 22:16, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

## Two Pi Day and Tau Day

I had their definitions in the lead/lede and was going to change the redirect of Tau Day from Pi#In_popular_culture to this page. This page focuses on the "Day" and some organizations, like the Exploratorium, have celebrated "Two Pi". I think the sentences should be moved back and the terms bolded again. They are not used much, but this seems like the best place for it. StrayBolt (talk) 04:07, 15 March 2018 (UTC)