Talk:Pica (disorder)/Archive 1

Early comments

I've removed the following, which I assume to be jokes. If you wish to add them back to the list, please give a reference supporting the claim that these are real disorders.

• xylophagia (consumption of wood toothpicks)
• coniophagia (consumption of dust from Venetian blinds)
• gooberphagia (pathological consumption of peanuts)

--Woggly 19:31, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am restoring these because of [1], which does appear to be an independent source (i.e. not quoting wikipedia) it also mentions "pagophagia, a hankering for ice" not mentioned in this article. It is also referenced by a couple of other sites including even discharge blood from stakes or even people waste or animal wasteThe Woman Who Vomited Frogs. Egad!--ZayZayEM 06:57, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

On the subject of a "hankering for ice" I do know this to be real as I experienced it myself during my twin pregnancy, and it was discussed with one of my midwives as a not uncommon thing to happen to pregnant women - however, I can't remember the name for it.

Kchapman 09:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

• xylophagia: xylo- means wood and -phagia means eating, so, wood-eating. There may be no sources but that's what it means. Maybe not just wooden toothpicks, but just plain wood.
• coniophagia: complete lie.
• gooberphagia: complete lie again -- since when was peanuts not food?

12:28, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

In most of the world 'goobers' are boogers. But I'm sure it's graffiti all the same. Foxi tails (talk) 04:43, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

non-foods?

Flour is food. So is starch--ZayZayEM 06:50, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • Very true, but starch and flour are not normally eaten raw. Of course, very few people would go and buy a bag of flour, open it then wolf it down! Ditto for starch, which reminds me, can you even buy starch? It's normally added (or already in) foods? ^KILO-_LIMA 21:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

You can buy corn starch in the supermarket, it's typically used in cooking as a thickening agent in gravies and sauces and so forth. Bikergeek (talk) 08:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

crayons?

Hi there,

Here is a source for crayon eating even although it comes from Ebaumsworld [2] Even although I wouldn't really trust Ebaumsworld, this appears to be from a magazine. Thanks, 12:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

i doubt it...

"There is a lack of major studies and research in this field, possibly because of strong aversion to the subject as "gross" and "disgusting"."

Since when would a researcher be put off by something being culturally "gross" or "disgusting"? Ever read the influential 2004 paper "homosexual necrophilia in the Mallard Anas platyrhynchos"? researchers aren't put off by gay corpse f***ing ducks, but apparently are by dirt eating? --86.135.179.53 19:08, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Pica

Wouldn't eating paper be considered pica?

Peanuts and potatoes

"Pathological consumption of peanuts" and "abnormal ingestion of raw potatoes" are currently in the list of examples. I question their inclusion, as both peanuts and potatoes are food. Excessive consumption may be some form of eating disorder, but it seems that by definition it isn't pica. I suppose that raw potatoes could be considered a borderline case, for the same reason as plain flour. However, I think that without supporting evidence, the peanut entry at least should definitely be removed from the list. --Icarus 22:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the "gooberphagia" thing has been brought up before and it's probably the same person who keeps putting it back after it gets removed. Phobia had a similar problem with jokey conditions/real conditions ("fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of the mouth," etc) so I've posted over there asking for advice or help. I'd say gooberphagia is OK to delete though, unless whoever is adding it wants to explain themselves (yeah, right). Recury 02:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

error

alot of this article is incorrect but i do not feel i should fix it because i do not believe all of this information should be discredited. i did a lot of research into this subject and a majority of my reliable sources(medical textbooks and case studies) expressly said that Pica is more rarely a psychological disorder than it is a biochemical defeciency. i added a paragraph to the page but i did not remove anything. i also added my sources and they seem more reliable than the other sources such as "The Straight Dope". they are the internet version of a medical book and one case study of a man who compulsively ate matches. i am not however going to deny that some cases of Pica are caused by psychological dysfunction.

How do you define Pica?

I want to know more about this disorder. I know a lot of people who like to eat stuff that normally would be considered gross, like raw potato and powdered milk. Is it always a disorder when you eat things like that? I like to eat paper, in little bits at a time. Is this Pica? Should I stop doing it? Even if it is Pica, is paper dangerous to eat? --Jonathan ^talk 15:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so- it's not dangerous to half the known population of a certain elementary school- so I guess it's fine...

Citation Needed

Someone seems to have gone a little "citation needed" crazy. I mean, I'm sure that "Most developmental centers have a no-smoking policy" needs a citation, but does "due to this fact" need a citation? And is the paragraph in question even needed? FruitMart07 23:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I deleted this paragraph. It looks like it was added as a joke and someone put in "citation needed" to bring attention to how ridiculous this is. If it's actually true, it should be put back up with citations. 134.84.102.244 00:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll try and get a photo of the signs at one of our facilities, a day program for the developmentally disabled. It states: [paraphrasing] "Please deposit cigarette butts in designated containers due to the risk they pose to our individuals". -- MacAddct  1984 ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

consumption of mattrass foam

what do you call that? I have a friend who eats foam from her bed mattrass, practically chews on this for 30 mins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.227.230.130 (talk) 14:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Treatment

Why is "Test and treat for anemia, eg, with time-release iron supplements" not listed anywhere under Treatment? Ideally it would be listed first, before any psychosocial interventions.Tina Kimmel 17:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I went to the doctors with my mum who told the dr. about my consumption of paper. He went onto google and read a passage of a girl with similar problems in the USA. He read what a reader had replied to as appropriate treatment and said that he was going to do the same unless I gave up eating paper within the next 10 days. He offered to refer me to a psychiatrist, and I said no because I am not mental! He did not ask me for a blood test to find out if I was iron deficient. Should I change doctors, or is he right, I do need to see a psychiatrist.79.121.205.200 (talk) 19:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia, not WebMD.Foxi tails (talk) 04:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Frequency?

Does anyone have a reference that would shed any light on how many people are thought to be afflicted by Pica? Also, does anyone know if this disorder is reported fairly equally across different populations of people (cultural groups, male/female...)? Johntex\^talk 04:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added answers to some of your questions, but I've avoided the question of prevalence differences by sex. Naturally females are affected more due to pregnancy, but we would expect them to be affected more due to general anemia as well - however, I have been unable to find a reference for this. I haven't seen any evidence of differential prevalence by sex amongst children or developmentally disabled adults. --Zach425 09:14, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Rapunzel Example

I wouldn't consider the following snippet from the article to be an example of pica: "In the fairy tale Rapunzel, a pregnant woman longs for some of the leafy vegetable in a neighbour's garden, and is sure she will die if her craving is not satisfied." Because she wants a vegetable, she is not craving something inedible. Idbelange (talk) 03:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Removing uncited & unsubstantiated sentences

I have removed the following two sentences from the text. The first one has remained uncited despite being "citation needed" for nearly two years. The second had no citation and does not appear to be backed by the literature - though a lack of a mineral deficiency may suggest mental disorder, simply the absence of a deficiency does not in itself lead to the diagnosis of a mental disorder.

"The association between pica and [[iron deficiency anemia]] is so strong that most patients with iron deficiency will admit to some form of pica.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}"

"If a mineral deficiency is not identified as the cause of pica, it often leads to a diagnosis of a mental disorder." --Zach425 10:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Evolutionary significance

This page needs to include a section about the evolutionary significance of pica. It occurs in other animals besides humans, and can be seen as an adaptation from millions of years ago to deal with nutrient deficiencies. As such, it is less of a "disorder" than a condition, because it represents a normally-functioning body trying to compensate for malnutrition.

Realistically, discussion of pica should include discussion of geophagia, but "pica" remains the disordered behavior, while "geophagia" is the potentially adaptive evolved behavior. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.64.195.188 (talk) 18:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Pokemon

Is there some reason the Pokemon Pikachu's name is not mentioned in the "popular culture" section? If not, I will add it. Egnalebd (talk) 20:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you would first need a compelling link between Pikachu and pica. Although it's been over a decade since I last watched a Pokemon episode, I don't remember Pikachu eating anything that would indicate pica, nor can I find a link online. Pikachu shouldn't be mentioned in this article just because his name sounds like the eating disorder. —Zach425 ^talk/contribs 23:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

More likely the fact that a pika is a small rodent, and I would assume "Chu" is Japanese for something like "small" or maybe even a kind of rodent, so Pikachu translated loosely would be "MouseMouse" or something silly like that. Totally unrelated to this article. 99.197.128.57 (talk) 04:50, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Daniel Sherriff

If someone is in charge of this page, I expect the reference to Daniel Sherriff is someone's idea of a joke. The example isn't true pica, and the supposed effect sounds like someone made it up. I Googled and found no support for this. Absent a citation, should it be deleted? 71.86.120.216 (talk) 09:45, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not in charge of the page, but that reference was laughable, so I went ahead and deleted it. --Dweingart (talk) 19:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Reason the name Pica = Magpie was chosen

I would dispute this article's assumption that the reason the word Pica (Latin for Magpie) was chosen is because this bird "eats almost anything". The characteristic behaviour of magpies is that they are thieves; that will steal INEDIBLE shiny objects and hoard them in their nest. This explanation better matches the characteristic of the medical condition which is craving inedible or metallic objects and substances. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.63.18 (talk) 11:45, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Examples

I added information about what people with Pica eat. I think to improve this article, it needs more detailed treatment options and explanation. I also think it could use some real examples of people who have experienced Pica first hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiffanybn (talk • contribs) 04:51, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Real Life Examples

I added a sentence about how pica has been associated with iron deficiency anemia, but i think what would help make this article better would be to include real life examples. If their are biographies or autobiographies about people that have suffered from this disease that could be used as references I believe it would really help the validity of this article. Nbarton10 (talk) 06:18, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Project Plan

For our Pica project, we divided the article into 4 sections.

Nicole-History of Pica. When was Pica discovered and who has had it? How long has it been around?

Tiffany-Defining/causes of Pica. What does the term Pica mean,and what in the body causes it to happen? Is it a chemical problem or a mental issue?

Alex-Symptoms/Diagnosis of Pica. What are the signs of Pica? How do doctors/therapists go about diagnosing it? What tests are done?

Kelly-Treatments for Pica. Once it has been diagnosed, what is done to lessen Pica's role in a person's life? Can it go away completely or is it something that people have to learn to live with and control? Is the treatment usually successful? -When diagnosing Pica, one must first consider health factors such as a lack of nutrients or exposure to dangerous substances that have been consumed. Once that is taken care of, they can proceed with psychological treatment. Typically they use aversion therapy, where the patient learns through positive reinforcement which foods are good and which ones they shouldn't. Often treatment is similar to the treatment of obsessive compulsive or addictive disorders (such as exposure therapy). In some cases treatment is as simple as addressing the fact they have this disorder and why they may have it. Success with treatment varies depending on the cause of the disorder.Developmental causes tend to have a lower success rate. (http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/pica/overview.html)

We will be responsible for siting our own sources and finding information. (Tiffanybn (talk) 02:25, 13 October 2011 (UTC))

Kyokoyama (talk) 05:48, 13 October 2011 (UTC) Resources: Library online book.

We will add links of the resources we find onto either the pica talk page or our group members page in case an article or book provides help to more than one area Nbarton10 (talk) 07:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys! Here is the citation of a journal article I found that will help me do the history section. I also wanted to let you guys all now that there are quite a few articles on pica that can be found with the Linfield library article search in case you guys were having trouble finding anything. Parry-Jones, B., & Parry-Jones, W. L. (January 01, 1992). Pica: symptom or eating disorder? A historical assessment. The British Journal of Psychiatry : the Journal of Mental Science, 160, 341-54. Nbarton10 (talk) 05:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey everyone I added some of the information about the history of pica eating disorder. I have not finished reading one of the articles I found yet so there will be more information on this section coming in the future. Nbarton10 (talk) 23:22, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

PsycInfo article

Hopefully you understand that these footnotes you're trying to add will actually have to go into the article next to the information that needs citing. (there's also really no reason to put a footnote on a talk page) -- Fyrefly (talk) 06:06, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Rough Draft

Here is my outline for my section for the article. I will had more for the final, but this is an idea!

Pica is a craving for non-nutritive items such as clay, coal, paper, dirt, glue, mud, etc. There are different variations of Pica, as it can be from a cultural tradition, acquired taste or a neurological mechanism such as an iron deficiency, or chemical imbalance. It can lead to intoxication in children which can result in an impairment in both physical and mental development. It can also lead to surgical emergencies.

Pica eating habits must be occurring for at least a month. It is most common in children and pregnant women. However, Pica is often times culturally accepted and is not deemed inappropriate. Pica has been linked to mentally disabled people and they often have psychotic comorbidity. Stressors such as maternal deprivation, family issues, parental neglect, pregnancy, poverty, and a disorganized family structure are strongly linked to Pica. Rule out disorders include mental and developmental disabilities and obsessive-compulsive disorder. (http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-pica)

When treating Pica disorder, one must first consider health factors such as a lack of nutrients or exposure to dangerous substances that have been consumed. Once that is taken care of, they can proceed with psychological treatment. Typically they use aversion therapy, where the patient learns through positive reinforcement which foods are good and which ones they shouldn't. Often treatment is similar to the treatment of obsessive compulsive or addictive disorders (such as exposure therapy). In some cases treatment is as simple as addressing the fact they have this disorder and why they may have it. Success with treatment is generally high and generally fades with age, but it varies depending on the cause of the disorder. Developmental causes tend to have a lower success rate. Pregnancy craving causes tend to have higher success rates. . (Kyokoyama (talk) 02:32, 15 November 2011 (UTC))

Self Group Critique

After looking at another group's article and thinking about what we should add to ours I have come up with a few suggestions. First, I think that we should really try to include a picture in some section of our article, however I am not quite sure where exactly the best fit for that would be. Secondly, I don't know if anyone has looked up the DSM-IV definition for pica, but it would be a good reference for the symptoms section. Professor Tompkins might even have one we could borrow in order to accomplish that. Finally, I think we are just going to need to go over the article a few more times in order to make sure that we are not being repetitive in any areas.

All in all though, I think we have a solid start to the article and after a little work it will be a lot more complete than when we began. Oh and I will take the responsibility of making sure the intro sounds good and well thought out because right now it seems like it is choppy to me. Nbarton10 (talk) 02:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

I am happy with the way things are turning out! DSM-IV information would be nice. I will go through the article again and i have been talking to Alex about contributing. We really needed to fix our references for our good article nomination, which most of us did. So good job on that! (Kyokoyama (talk) 02:37, 5 December 2011 (UTC))

Peer Review

Your article seems incredibly thoughtful and informative considering this is a topic a lot of people are uninformed on. You have done a good job of covering all the major topics. The only concern I had was with the "causes" where at one point it is mentioned that "Sensory, physiological, cultural and psychosocial perspectives" have been considered regarding etiological factors. However, you do not go on to explain each of these persepectives. I would either include at least a minimal explanation for all of the perspectives mentioned, or remove an mention of the ones you don't address. Otherwise, good overall explanation and use of sources. Kmfrance (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys! I just looked at your article as part of this week's peer review assignment. It looks pretty good and detailed! I just had a few suggestions for your "Causes" section. I am curious as to how childhood mistreatment could explain the onset of pica. Also, is pica associated with alleviating stress, like purging is a form of stress reduction in people with bulimia? How does reinforcement play a role in pica behaviors? Perhaps you could include a section that explains how reinforcement contributes to the maintenance of pica. Otherwise, this was very informative; I had never even heard of pica before! Hfrueh (talk) 23:45, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Hello there! I read your article for the peer review assignment. You guys have made some really good improvements, and I learned a lot! I would second Kirstie's comment about explaining each of the cause perspectives. I think not only would that add more depth to your article but it would be an interesting to look into. I might also suggest looking to see if there's been any research (and conclusions made) for why Pica is more common in women in children. Is there something about the way women and children interact with the world that causes it or are they just more vulnerable? Good job though! Krhatley (talk) 21:30, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys! Your article was really interesting to read. I noticed that you gave one example of criteria as classified by the DSM-IV in your introduction section. Is there any other criteria that are required for it to be classified as a disorder? Are there any things you must rule out before calling it a disorder? I really liked the section that talked about different cultures and how that might come in to play. It would be cool if you could give a few more examples of unusual eating habits. Another thing that might be interesting to look into is comorbidity and possible disorders that might occur after treatment of pica. Looks good! (Andrewdewolf (talk) 00:32, 15 November 2011 (UTC))

Your article is strong and well detailed. I especially enjoyed the examples section at the end. I made note of two main things as I was reading through it. Firstly, you talk about how the disorder got its name from the Magpie bird in both the introduction of the article and the history of the article. Maybe only include it in one section, seeing as it's kind of redundant. Also, you mention that Pica is very common in pregnant women but never state the cause of this. I think it would be a good idea to include the cause, or remove the statement that it is common in pregnant women. Left me very curious as to why... Overall, you guys have done an excellent job! Jlucas1 (talk) 00:34, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

After reading your article I thought it was very informative and interesting! I heard about a disease like this, but wasn't really sure about what it exactly was. This gave me a really good idea of the disorder because it was very thorough. Some suggestions would be to list some of the causes for the sensory, physiological, cultural and psychosocial perspectives. You also mention is your history section that it is normal in some cultures to have pica behavior that is a disorder to most people. It would be interesting to look into what cultures actually believe this type of behavior is normal, and how it differs from not being diagnosed as a disorder. Other than that, I think you did a really good job and I enjoy the different examples and the pictures! Dlaborte (talk) 06:35, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Feedback on Rough Draft

You've made some substantial improvements here... nice job! I have a few comments/suggestions organized by section below. Additionally, given that you are working on this article now all of it is "yours" to fix (including those sections that already existed or were written by others). Thus, make sure to read the entire article aloud paying attention to sentences that are awkward or in need of editing. As you start to receive feedback from your peers, me and/or other editors make sure to respond by either explaining your choices to not edit or making the suggested edits.

• "History" section - there is a redundant sentence between this section and the opening paragraph regarding magpies. Delete one.
• "Causes" section - attend to the needed citation and who suggested that traumatic events are linked to pica. You mention other causes here (sensory, physiological, and cultural) and in treatment (pregnancy, psychosis) but don't clearly explain or organize in a way that is easy to follow these through how they may bring about pica and how this translates into treatment.
• Can you add any information about assessment (e.g., are there any structured interviews or measures/questionnaires to assess pica)?

In the treatment section there are several issues to consider:

• "...category of patient" is a strange phrase. Perhaps, "... may vary by patient type and suspected cause"?
• As noted above you discuss psychosis as a cause here but it hasn't been discussed in the "Causes" section; same for pregnancy
• Add citations in the second paragraph
• "good" consequence should be changes to "positive" consequence
• This sentence is wordy and tough to follow... "... contingent on pica being attempted or initiated regardless of a pica attempt"; reword it
• I would suggest moving "Epidemiology" before treatment (perhaps even before "Causes")
• Consider changing "Notes" to "References"

Tatompki (talk) 04:28, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I made a lot of these suggested edits to the article. I found more information on assessment and treatment. I also reworded a few sentences and added citations where previous editors had not. (Tiffanybn (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2011 (UTC))

I also made suggested edits. Professor Tompkins, I did not write most of what you wanted edited, but I did make some changes to the already existing article. I discussed more about pregnancy and success rates as suggested. I also nominated our article. (Kyokoyama (talk) 05:02, 22 November 2011 (UTC))

We have a guideline on the structure of medical articles called WP:MEDMOS. Thus epidemiology usually goes after the section on treatment.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

References

Per WP:MEDRS we typically use review articles for medical content. Lots of review articles are available via pubmed for example:

• Young, SL (2010 Aug 21). "Pica in pregnancy: new ideas about an old condition". Annual review of nutrition. 30: 403–22. PMID 20420523. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
• Young, SL (2011 Jun). "Why on earth?: Evaluating hypotheses about the physiological functions of human geophagy". The Quarterly review of biology. 86 (2): 97–120. PMID 21800636. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• Viguria Padilla, F (2006 Sep-Oct). "[Pica: the portrait of a little known clinical entity]". Nutricion hospitalaria : organo oficial de la Sociedad Espanola de Nutricion Parenteral y Enteral. 21 (5): 557–66. PMID 17044601. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

Some of the current refs do not work and others are to the lay press. Both not suitable sources. Cheers --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pica (disorder)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jmh649 (talk · contribs) 16:23, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• The primary issue I see at this point is that many of the references do not comply with WP:MEDRS. Please replace news stories and none functional references with review articles or major textbooks / government statements. Pubmed lists about 200 reviews. [3] Will come back and review further once this is accomplished. --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:23, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
• Still a lot of old or non high quality sources. Ref 5 is to the NYTs, ref 7,9,10 is to the old DSM, 11 and 12 are to papers from 79 and 86 respectively. 17 is to ABC news.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 11:20, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Additional Feedback

You've made some positive changes to the article in this second draft. However, there are still a number of concerns that need to be addressed most notably the need for reliable citations (in some cases - e.g., "Causes" section there are citations missing - including the link to trauma which isn't sourced; in other cases they are not suitable sources). As I mentioned in my prior feedback you need to make changes to the entire article, not just additions that you may have made to the article. Toward that end the entire article still could improve with additional edits to improve style, flow and readability. There are also a few issues that are in need of being addressed namely why are women and children at increase risk (this still isn't terribly clear to me). Additionally, Helena brought up an important question regarding the role of stress or other factors that may maintain the disorder. Finally, you may want to consider adding in DSM criteria under the image (and, if you haven't searched see if there are any new developments to add in the history section regarding DSM-5).Tatompki (talk) 23:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Group project in progress

Hello! Our abnormal psychology class is in the process of being graded for our final project to improve this article on Pica disorder. Please refrain from making edits until December 16th, 2011 as our professor will be looking over the article in its entirety based on whatever is on the page. Feel free to leave suggestions until then! Thank you for your understanding :) (Kyokoyama (talk) 04:25, 5 December 2011 (UTC))

"in other animals" section underdeveloped

Pica in other animals extends beyond dirt/clay etc. Cats of Siamese origin often compulsively eat wool cloth, for instance. The way the section is currently worded gives the impression that pica is really only about eating dirt/clay/minerals. Lemurbaby (talk) 02:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Reddit link

Under the See Also section of links, why is there one for a Reddit comment? Not only is it unverified, but it is an anecdote at best. This should probably be removed, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mockenoff (talk • contribs) 14:48, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I see three links in the See Also section, all pointing to wikipedia pages. In fact, searching for 'reddit' in the article's code turns up nothing. I would think any link to a Reddit comment should be removed, but I don't see the link you're talking about. This has already been removed. -- Fyrefly (talk) 18:51, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 13:47, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

---

Pica (disorder) → ? – Not all pica is a disorder, e.g., urophagia and geophagy, can be normal cultural practices. That these practices are more common outside of English-speaking areas suggests a bit of systemic bias in the current title. We don't use "smoking (disorder)". Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 08:01, 17 July 2012 (UTC) —  AjaxSmack  04:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• What is the actual suggested new article name? —BarrelProof (talk) 16:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I fouled up the RM syntax. I don't have a suggested target. I was hoping discussion might generate some ideas. —  AjaxSmack  20:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
• Reading the content of the article, it seems to be limited to discussing the definition, diagnosis, and treatment of pica as a disorder. This seems to be a suggestion to change the scope and content of the article rather than just to change its title. The current title seems to fit the current content. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  • You're right about the limited scope but that's part of the systemic bias. If you think that this bias is acceptable, I would suggest a title more like diagnosis and treatment of pica so as not to preclude other points of view in the definition of pica. —  AjaxSmack  20:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. Merriam-Webster defines pica as, "an abnormal desire to eat substances (as chalk or ashes) not normally eaten".[4] So it is by definition a disorder. Kauffner (talk) 10:24, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
  • The COD's definition is somewhat less judgmental (but not strikingly so). —BarrelProof (talk) 17:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
    • Neither of those definitions mention a disorder. A disorder is a deviation from social expectations and the millions of Africans who practice geophagy as part of their culture are not deviating from anything. —  AjaxSmack  02:16, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
      • Well, the COD's definition of disorder doesn't exactly mention social expectations. It says that a disorder is a "disruption of normal ... functions". Looking at the definition of pica, it refers to it being a "tendency or craving" rather than a "disruption" – perhaps it is more of a "condition" than a "disorder"? What would you think of "Pica (medical condition)"? —BarrelProof (talk) 04:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
        • Perhaps, but it still seems strange. Cf. "smoking (medical condition)". The reason I compare smoking is that is the activity that geophages most often compare their calaba consumption to. ("It's like smoking."/"Men smoke; women eat calaba.") I don't have anything constructive to offer myself so let's allow this to die quietly. I'll wait a few decades until Central/West African internet usage has increased to where geophages can argue this themselves. —  AjaxSmack  01:43, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
          • Your suggestion to rename "smoking" to "smoking (medical condition)" is probably a good one, but that should be discussed on a different page. :-) I see what you mean. Perhaps "Pica (eating practice)" or "Pica (eating)". —BarrelProof (talk) 04:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
• I don't understand what "smoking" has to do with anything; that article's title does not require a disambiguator of any sort. This one does. Specifically, however, it was my understanding that "pica" refers to the craving, which is mildly disordered, rather than to the practice, which may be undertaken for social reasons. Powers ^T 17:54, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I was never suggesting moving the smoking article. What I meant was that we would not normally call smoking a "disorder" or a "medical condition" and yet some behavior that falls under the rubric of "pica (disorder)" is roughly equivalent to smoking. —  AjaxSmack  01:04, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
    • No, but we would call "nicotine addiction" a disorder. wikt:pica clearly identifies pica as a "vitiated [disordered] appetite", not as a cultural practice. Powers ^T 15:54, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
      • I notice that the DSM definition included in the article specifically excludes eating practices that are an ordinary part of a person's culture. —BarrelProof (talk) 14:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.