Talk:Pierre De Geyter

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Broken link[edit]

Today, 11 March:

link to Solidair no longer works, but is still in google's cache: [1]

Please note similar experiences here. Thank you.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 16:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Link works again. Good, since someone challenged Pierre De Geyter's leanings after 1903.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 08:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

French Socialist Party history 1902-1904[edit]

Thanks to User:Sfranzi I have been looking at this history. Sfranzi did not like the use of the term "communist" in 1904. For those who may have gone so far as to doubt that in 1904 there could already have been a rift - there definitely was one. Jean Jaurès, who led the Parti socialiste français had supported the Bloc National coalition of Radicals (= Left-wing liberals under Clémenceau) and other left-wingers. Jules Guesde, leader of the Parti socialiste de France, and an MP for nearby Roubaix by the way, who called himself a true Marxist, had not. After 1903, the rift which was starting to appear internationally, was officialised in the Russian Social Democratic party, which split between Martov and Lenin in again nearby Brussels.

In 1905-1906, the two socialist parties merged into the funnily, but purposely named SFIO, but the ideological differences remained. Ironically, Jean Jaurès would remain staunchly anti-war, and get assassinated for it, while Guesde (who after 1906, started to believe that war would lead to the destruction of empires and the establishment of left-wing revolutionary government - he would be proven right to a point) would actually join the war government... After the war, Jean Jaurès's main heritage, L'Humanité would as a result of lingering pacifism fall into the hands of the Bolsheviks. In 1920, the persistent ambiguity in the French Socialist Party finally got solved by a Martov-Lenin split. Guesde remained with the minority, although he would continue to write articles in support of the Russian Bolsheviks (he died in 1922, before Stalin may have changed his ideas about the Soviet Union).

There is not much doubt where Pierre's sympathies were in 1902, 1903 and 1920. I think after 1902, French followers of Guesde and Lenin often used the word "communist", but cannot source that now (even Delory may have used the term, as after the Commune for some time it was synonymous with "socialism" in France) I agree with Sfranzi, that the use of the word "communist" for Pierre or even Guesde may be rather confusing to an international public, so I changed the text.

As far as I know, "Bloc National" was also the name of a French right-wing party coalition between the two world wars, so we need an article about the French meaning of "Bloc National" desperately. It is put as a link in a number of our articles about this period, although our only "Bloc National" articles are about Arab phenomena...

Since there is evidence (both in the main Dutch source and in the Australian source from Sfranzi) that the rift on that level was one of the causes for the De Geyter brothers quarreling over the copyright, I decided to change the text by adding a sentence to expalin the circumstances at the time - this also has the effect of taking personal blame away from Delory. It may also create the impression that Pierre too may have had an ulterior motive to hit at Delory and Adolphe. But a) the article should not be a eulogy to Pierre and b) he himself, after 1920 (and the official birth of the communist party) may have liked the idea that he was doing it to help the party against the reformists, and not on personal grounds.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 09:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Strange facts in a Russian encyclopedia[edit]

[2] Under the French text ofg the song, it claims: "рабочему Пьеру Дегейтеру, родом бельгийцу, бывшему солдату франко-прусской войны, сделавшему в 1871 попытку пробраться в Париж, чтобы присоединиться к коммунарам, но захваченному и отправленному немцами на север, где он и остался жить. "

Translated: "(This task was entrusted to) the worker Pierre Degeyter, born a Belgian, former soldier from the French-Prussian War, who had tried to reach Paris to join the Communards but who had been taken prisoner and sent by the Germans to the North, where he was still living at the time."

I found other sources for Pierre's military service in the French army (he or his parents had obviously applied for French nationality on moving to Lille, on the grounds of his or their parental or maternal origins), but no one ever mentioned 1871. That would be very significant indeed, even without a provable attempt to join the Commune. However, te Russian encyclopedia totally destroys its own credibility by claiming that the German army sent Pierre to the North, which we know to be untrue.

So, I am not adding yet, but remain on the lookout for similar sources about Pierre's involvement in 1871. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 08:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)