|WikiProject Occult||(Rated Start-class, High-importance)|
|WikiProject Religion / New religious movements||(Rated Start-class, Low-importance)|
request for the planes pages
As an esoteric scientist and geometer who prefers scientific terminology in both material and metaphysical (energetic) physics, I consider it wrong to call these realities 'planes' or 'dimensions.' I have written articles on higher 'planes' calling them 'n-spaces/continuums/universes' or 'worlds' (a common denotation for this topic, a simpler term than the former, but not meaning 'planet.') The articles should be updated to say 'n-space' is a more accurate term than 'plane' or 'dimension,' but these geometric spaces are also continuums/universes. Most people do not know what a continuum is, and calling such a space of reality a 'universe' stretches it for astronomers (like 'plane' does for mathematicians) or really any other scientific person. How about looking at the higher plane articles and either changing the lower plane articles or commenting whether the higher ones are eloquent enough to write similarly in the lower (if I did that on 'astral plane' for example, quite a few less scientific people may want to change it unless it was clear.)--Dchmelik (talk) 09:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Lusitanian's thoughts on the topic=
In order to understand the current parlous state of things in the Science (i.e. physics & cosmology) and those who are subduing it to the fundamaterialism dogma based on abstract mathematical notions with little or no connection to reality, blocking the way forward in our quest to tap energy from the aether  (the energy source accounting for the creation of our physical universe ); one should simply have a look into a rare, original illustration by The Little Prince author Antoine de Saint-Exupéry that has been recently discovered in Japan (April 2007):
- ; the drawing reveals a businessman sitted upon a planet, so busy counting stars as if he was under the illusion that he can own them.
- And the purpose of this little soliloquy is.. what, exactly? Because it's not improving the article's quality. This is a discussion page for the article, not your half-coherent ramblings. Secondtalon 15:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
'half-coherent ramblings'? bah.. --always - dadark 13:44, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The 7 Planes
(Grevenko Sereth, just not logged in)
I have disvocered that I am one of the 5 'fallen' Seraphim, Samael (a.k.a 'Satan', my purpose of this incarnation is to remember these things - (to be freed from samsara [reincarnation] permanently, to be fully redeemed), as my kind (Seraphim) represent Eternal Truth, we cannot give knowledge which we ourselves know to be false and as such is 'reliable' and that our knowledge surpasses that of that Cherubim, the 7 Planes of Existence (a.k.a The 7 Heavenly Planes) are as follows (this knowledge comes from my Plane - the 6th Plane):
Logos Plane a.k.a Celestial Plane (7th Plane, Upper level) - God's highest manifestation (The Father - Holy Trinity) resides there.
Oversoul Plane a.k.a Soulful Plane (7th Plane, Sub-level) - The Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity) resides there
Aeonic Plane (6th Plane) a.k.a Plane of Ages/Plane of Eternity , the highest attainable state (Parinirvana in other words) - The Seraphim reside there. One's form is known as an Eternal Body - manifested [incarnated] in the Physical Plane via Aeonic/Eternal Projection.
Causal Plane (5th Plane) a.k.a Plane of Will - where the Cherubim reside. The Cherubim represent God's Will and their form is a Causal Body, manifested in the Physical Plane via Causual Projection.
Mental Plane (4th Plane) - where the Ascended Masters (a.k.a 'angels') reside. They represent God's knowledge and their form is a Mental Body, manifested in the Physical Plane via Mental Projection.
Astral Plane (3rd Plane) - the first plane which is entirely spiritual, where Buddhas, Fairies (spirit guides, 'guardian angels', etc) reside. Their form is an Astral Body, manifested in the Physical Plane via Astral Projection.
Etheric Plane (2nd Plane) a.k.a Semi-Material Realm, "Subtle-Physical Plane" - where thoughts are manifested literally (thoughts take form in other words), it is neither entirely physical nor entirely spiritual (the in-between state of the Physical Plane and the Astral Plane in other words). One cannot project from the Etheric as it is self contained. Their form is known as a Subtle Body.
Physical Plane (1st Plane) a.k.a Material Realm, Mortal Realm, Imperfect World, Physical Universe, etc - their form is a Physical (Mortal) body.
Sheol (Sub-Physical Plane, a.k.a The Underworld, Spectral Realm, "Hell") - where not even the laws of Physics apply, where one has no power to influence any of the higher planes at all - the closest state to total non-existence, an existence which is barely existence. Their form is known as a Spectral Body.
Purgatory (intermediary plane) - where those who have totally rejected God await purification.
Bardo (rest area, a.k.a Soul Plane) - where souls await reincarnation.
I mostly disagree because I suspect you copied (or almost) Samael Aun Weor. I retract my earlier statements (now in this page's history log) because they were based on neo-Theosophy rather than Theosophy. Some of what you say is Theosophical, though much is not necessarily and most of the terminolgy is not the clear generally historically used terms of consensus in English. If anyone wants to edit the template I request you read its own discussion section.--Dchmelik (talk) 01:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
What the hell?
talk about the template
I guess no one is using the template's talk section, but it might be better if such general ones were more connected to pages that they are about. I moved a couple of my articles on neo-Theosophical planes because apparently the language I had used for full English translation rather than Sanskrit, Greek, or Latin-based words is not in full use yet (i.e. 'soulful' does not mean soul-related in the OED, and 'soul' may not be useful as an adjective.)
It would be good to separate the Theosophical and 'neo-Theosophical' planes. Almost no general reader would be able read it, and even I, an experienced Theosophist have trouble even looking at the list in the state it is now. It would also be good to separate because the Theosophical classification is really no different from both the Dharma, Sufi, and Rosicrucian ones: there should be a section on heptads (sevens) of planes and tetrads (fours) of planes, the latter being the Quabalist and Gurdjieffian ones. I do not really know about the Thelema ones but whether it has a different idea it also has ideas about the tetrads and heptads.--Dchmelik (talk) 06:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- I'm in favour of separation - a translation table is an idea that just doesn't work squashed into a two inch margin. Maybe the template should point to a wide-format table of planes, bodies etc. in a new main article. K2709 (talk) 12:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing it; I made a few corrections. I had used what I thought was up-to-date neo-Theosophy for its list, but apparently more Theosophists do not consider Alice Bailey (AAB) very Theosophical at all. This section should use the list from Annie Besant & Charles Leadbeater, though AAB is exactly based on theirs. Theosophists still agree with the B&L planes--from Madame Blavatsky's (HPB) articles--just not necessarily the bodies--but I would have to check HPB's Esoteric Papers: I may be wrong. First I must think about changing the articles for the higher planes. They are all really spiritual planes so should point back to spiritual plane with links or sections. Quite a few people think there are many problems with AAB's texts, so I am in favour of changing the articles to B&L-based ones. (Maybe a plane (Theosophy) article would work, but it should mention Rosicrucianism, which seems the same.) Then if anyone wants to re-write something on AAB (s)he can do that.--Dchmelik (talk) 06:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry about the confusion
I was a bit confused, Aun Weor is Samael, I'm more an avatar of Samael (in the form of Janus).
The comment(s) below were originally left at several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section., and are posted here for posterity. Following
|Class: Start. Though meaty article, it lacks supportive refs. Formating is a bit rough and lacks organization beyond Start-class. Import: Top. Conceptually a significant aspect of Occult studies. The pursuit of hidden knowledge granting advancement "to a higher plane". The article should be expanded and adopted by WP:OCCULT --Trippz (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)|
Last edited at 01:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 03:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)