|This page was nominated for deletion on July 14, 2006. The result of the discussion was redirect to Sports club.|
Disagree totally, origin of word is irrelevant. English language words have their origins in many languages. Polideportivo is just one of the more recent imports. I doubt many people will search Wikipedia for the phrase Sports club as the meaning is obvious. Polideportivo is a word people would look up as they are less familar with phrase. In addition, it my understanding that sports club referrs to a small institution, such as your local leisure centre, while Polideportivo referrs to a mass organization such as FC Barcelona or Real Madrid. The two do not mean the same thing. Literal translation of Polideportivo would be multi-sport. Djln --Djln 00:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
As I understand you are not against merger, you are simply suggesting that the main article should be "Multisports club" and not "Sports club", which I have to agree with. Your translation is better. Polideportivo is not an english word and cannot have an article in English Wikipedia when there is the same word in English. And it is definitely not only a Spanish phenomenon, most major clubs all over Europe have more than one department. --Avg 03:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think the Polideportivo article should be given precedence. I don't know why you are hung up about the origins of the word. Polideportivo has come to mean a multi-sport institution in the English language. Nobody uses the phrase "Multisports club" to describe the clubs we are taking about. I agree the concept of polideportivo is not uniquely Spanish but the word itself has crossed over into other languages. To say it should not be included in the English Wikipedia is ridiculous and smacks of language fascism. If this criteria was used to include/exclude articles English Wikipedia would be very small. Djln --Djln 23:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- "Polideportivo has come to mean a multi-sport institution in the English language"? Are you joking? Who do you think knows this word except spanish speaking people? Why don't you ask any english (or even not-spanish) friend you have, that is except yourself who are obviously an exception, if he's ever heard of the word polideportivo. Perhaps then you will start being more reasonable. And "nobody" uses the phrase sports club or multisports club elsewhere? Why don't you then visit for example SL Benfica or Panathinaikos page and have a look at the first sentence in both of them? --Avg 01:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
- Just because you have never heard of the word does'nt mean that it does not exist. I an not Spanish and I have seen the word in regular usage over the past few years. Phil Ball, an English writer, in Morbo: The Story of Spanish Football uses the word to describe FC Barcelona. I think there is room enough on Wikipedia to have articles on both. You have missed the point I am making about sports club or multisports. To English speakers the meaning of these phrases/ words is obvious and they are unlikely to enter them when searching in Wikipedia. I thought that one of the aims of Wikipedia is to educate. English speakers who come across the word Polideportivo might want to find out its meaning. PS The tone of your message comes across as a bit aggressive and insulting. This is just meant to be a friendly discussion. Djln --Djln 20:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
- I think you are still confusing different things. Let me take it one by one: I've never said I haven't heard of the word. How am I wrting in this talk page in the first place? I also know though that its usage is confined to the Iberian peninsula. About the book you mention, it is more than obvious to me that Phil Ball is using the term because he is referring to Spanish football. He's just using the common term for what he's talking about. Would he use the word for an English team? I very much doubt it. Next, about your observation that the meaning of the term "multisports" is obvious to English speaking people, this in no way constitutes a reason for it not to be included in Wikipedia. It is not unlikely to enter a term that you already know, in order to learn more. Polideportivo happens to be the spanish equivalent of Multisports, therefore a redirect is the proper action to take. Finally, about your PS, perhaps you could have a look first at your previous post, where you characterised what I was writing as "ridiculous" and that "smacks of language fascism". I'm all for a friendly discussion, but I will change my tone if I'm insulted.--Avg 23:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I will say what I've already said. Polideportivo isn't an English word, and it is not used by any English language native speaker. I think sports club, multisports club, athletic club are the right words. I don't know how Koreans, Japanese or Chinese say sports or multisports club, but I think that words shouldn't be here in English Wikipedia because they are simply translations for an English word. In any case, polideportivo could redirect to sports club. Page Up 11:25, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- The argument that Polideportivo should not be included because it is a Spanish language word just does not hold up. The Spanish language is widely spoken throughout the globe and the term is not just confined to the Iberian Peninsula. There are numerous Spanish language words already included in the English version of Wikipedia. These include Conquistador, Barrio, Cantera, Gringo, Plaza, Municipalidad, Casta and Caudillo just to name a few. There are also articles on La Liga, the Copa del Rey, Copa America and the Copa Libertadores. Should all these articles be removed or merged with similar English language articles as well ? I think we can intially come to a consensus about changing Sports club to Multisports Club. How do feel about that ? PS Apologies for any offensive caused but I strongly believe there is room for both articles and no arguement put forward so far has convinced me otherwise. Djln --Djln 15:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the Portuguese word in the article since generally in Portugal the word polidesportivo only refers to a multisports arena, a multisports pavillion, a multisports building. A sports club is Clube Desportivo, Atlético Clube, União Desportiva, Associação Desportiva or even Sporting Clube, Sport Clube and so on. There are also many sports clubs named FC something - Futebol Clube (Football Club) which are effectively full multisports clubs. Page Up 14:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
How come so much stuff about Barça?
I (native from Barcelona) find it weird that in the current version of this article (May 2006) so many words are devoted to Futbol Club Barcelona considering that it (the team/multisports institution/club/whatever) comes from a place where this word, polideportivo is not used at all. To begin with it's not even a Catalan word. But that's clearly stated in the article, so no problem. However, it's bizarre that a non-English word of Spanish origin is illustrated with an example... where the word doesn't apply. In Barcelona poliesportiu (in Catalan) or polideportivo (in Spanish) is usually understood as a big gym: a place where upon payment of a certain fee you can swim, play squash, basketball, etc... Football club Barcelona would never be regarded as a "polideportivo" (that would most certainly be taken as a joke), but as a "sports club". On the other hand I understand that Barça complies with the definition criteria. Anyways. Improvable. --22.214.171.124 20:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- It is clear that the article was started by a Barça fan. People find difficult to scrap previous versions and prefer to add than remove :-) -- Avg 21:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- I have tried to explain before that this article was just a bad joke about a Spanish word. It seems clear to me that a well-intentioned British guy read a bad Spanish-English translation inside a book, but this wasn't enough to persuade other users to merge this article into sports club. Page Up 23:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi native from Barcelona and Avg,
I am the one who started this article. I first came across the word in Phil Ball's in Morbo: The Story of Spanish Football which uses the word to describe FC Barcelona. I am not a devout fan of the club, more a distant admirer. The emphasis on the club is only because they are the best example of the word. If you think the word needs further explanation then feel free to add article. I think when somes words are transferred from one language to another, as in this case, the words can change meaning even when used in a similar context. For example, your explanation of polideportivo is my understanding of sports club. I have already included Portuguese variation. Calls to scrap article are not particularly helpful, but I am all in favour of improvements. Djln --Djln 22:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
PS I have noticed that the Spanish language Wiki version es:Futbol Club Barcelona uses the heading El Carácter Polideportivo ?. So this word is used in relation to the club.
The English Wikipedia is not a translation tool.
Djln said: Removed deletion suggestion, there seems to a prejudice against Spanish words among some Wikipedians.
Unlike you have maliciously suggested, it's nothing personal. I don't know your reasons or alibis but this word has translation in English - it is sports club! What a hell do you think Wikipedia is? Maybe a translation dictionary. You should create articles for Sportverein, club de sports, clube desportivo, النادي الرياضي, スポーツクラブ, 스포츠 클럽 , 体育俱乐部 ... and so on.
In my opinion, polideportivo should be deleted or at least redirected to sports club.
I ask for administrator intrevention in order to solve this dispute, since I am a part time wikipedian. Page Up 12:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
In defence of article
It is my view that Polideportivo is a perfectly legitimate word to include in the English Wikipedia and that it is an example of a Spanish language word that has crossed over into the English language. This is a natural development of languages. An example of how the word has been used is cited in the article. Requests to delete article are uncalled for. I see no reason why this article cannot co-exist along side articles about sports club or mulitsports club. And on what grounds is this article not neutral ? Djln--Djln 13:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
- I do not agree with your view, the word polideportivo isn't found in any English dictionary or encyclopedia, so the article should be redirected to sports club. For the other side this must be known to other wikipedians decide and vote. Removing tags isn't the best way to justify a point of view. Typelighter 14:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
- Rubbish. New words emerge all the time. You'd swear I made up this word myself. It is virtually impossible for dictionaries or encyclopedias to remain upto date, so your arguement is not valid. Wikipedia is in position to be groundbreaking here. If nobody ever did anything first we would still all be living in caves.Djln--Djln 00:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)