Talk:Pope Paul III and His Grandsons

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In other places it is written that they are his grandsons... HustonJMarble (talk) 15:43, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


Portrait of Ottavio Farnese, 1580

Portrait of Cardinal Alessandro Farnese[edit]

There is nothing "unfinished" about this painting; on the contrary, it is finished to a high degree, as evidenced by the treatment of the washed silk. Notice that the sleeve of the "missing" hand it cut of in a straight vertical line that bears no relationship to the sleeve itself, the cuff apparent on the other sleeve, or the degree of finish in the painting of the textile. This is because the rest of the forearm and hand a behind something which is either a continuation of the curtain, or a door jamb (or something of that sort). Amandajm (talk) 11:32, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


  • "Ottavio's head is bowed, but his stern facial expression conveys that he is acting as protocol dictates, rather than with genuine diffidence.[17]"
I disagree with Kennedy. His expression is diffident rather than stern.
  • "His pose is hard to interpret"
This isn't right either. It is only hard to interpret if the viewer doesn't realise that it is customary to bow and kiss the papal slipper.
  • Concerning the Portrait of a young Englishman which is sometimes thought to be Howard, and has also been suggested as Ottavio:
It plainly isn't Howard. There are two portraits of Howard that both show him as having brown eyes and a red beard. Titian is most unlikely to paint pale blue eyes into the face of a man whose plainly has dark eyes which contrast with his red beard and pale eyebrows. Titian was a colourist.
So is this blue-eyed man with brown hair and a thin brown beard really Ottavio Farnese? The other two portraits reproduced at Ottavio Farnese both bear a strong resemblance, despite the fact that one is an idealised image and the other depicts him many years later. The eye colour in this image that someone has inserted is ambiguous, but pale. Amandajm (talk) 12:15, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Link to cardinal-nephew?[edit]

This is an excellent article. I wonder whether a link to cardinal-nephew might be useful at some point. As you can see from List of cardinal-nephews, this painting depicts only one of the six relatives whom Paul III elevated to the cardinalate. Savidan 13:35, 6 July 2014 (UTC)