Talk:Pow-wow (folk magic)

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Previous discussions without headers[edit]

Should this be a disambiguation page with the two topis as Pow-wow (gathering) and Pow-wow (folk magic), and then possibly add Pow-wow (music)?

oops, forgot to sign. Gentgeen 07:52, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
It depends how much there is to write about Pow-wow as a gathering. If it isn't going to be expanded beyond what it currently is, it could just stay here. If it could be a proper article, then a disambiguation would be good. Angela 07:58, Nov 4, 2003 (UTC)
well, I could expand it, but I'm a little hesitant because I only know about powwows in California, so don't feel qualified to write the whole article myself.Gentgeen 08:20, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Well that would be a start. It doesn't have to perfect straight away. If you think it has potential to develop into an article, then I'd say go for it. Angela 08:40, Nov 4, 2003 (UTC)
ok, I'll put this on my to do list. Gentgeen
By all means write about pow-wows. Whether we need a separate page may ultimately depend on how much you write. If you separate the two, it will of course be needful to go back and change the pages that link here to point to the right page. (What is "pow-wow" as a music genre, anyways?) -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:35, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Powwow music is the music sung at a Native American powwow. It generally consists of multiple voice and drum accompanyment, in a chanting style. It is further divided into (generally) two styles, Northern and Southern, and then each has various types of songs to use for particular dances. At every powwow I've been to the music is performed live by between 2 and 15 drums (the name of the group as well as the instrument), each with between 5 and 20 singers. Various Native American recordings, including powwow music and native flute, can be purchased from Canyon Records, among others. - keep forgetting to sign Gentgeen 22:06, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC) -
I've got a start up on my page, User:Gentgeen/Pow-wow (gathering). Gentgeen 23:15, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

If i remeber correctly there was a cartoon called Pow-wows about native american bears. - fonzy

ok looked it up and i was wrng it was the paw paws. but tere was a cartoon called: "The Adventures of Pow Wow" and the cartoon character Pow Wow Wolf. - fonzy

Ok, I've got the article on Pow-wow gatherings ready to go, but I'd like to get some aggrement on how to split the articles. I propose that the Pow-wow page be about the Native American gatherings and a new page Pow-wow (folk magic) be assigned for the folk magic meaning. My reasons are that I get 76K+ hits on Google for Pow-wow Native American and 98K+ hits for Pow-wow Indian, but only ~ 6,600 hits for Pow-wow folk magic. When I searched just for Pow-wow, 15 of the top 20 hits were for Native American gatherings, 2 were for software programs, one was for a water cooler, one for a bicycle tour company, and one for a school newspaper. Any comments? Gentgeen 08:39, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I agree. Move the current one to Pow-wow (folk magic), and move User:Gentgeen/Pow-wow (gathering) to Pow-wow. You'll need a sysop to delete the redirect after you move Pow-wow. Do you want me to do that now? Angela

OK, I've moved the old file to Pow-wow (folk magic), and am going figuring out which link needs to go where. If you'd like to delete the redirect, please do so. Thanks. Gentgeen 10:01, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ok, done. I've added the disambiguation parts at the bottom of each page too. I don't think a separate disambiguation page is needed unless Pow-wow (folk magic) is written as well, so maybe that can be done in the future. Angela 10:27, Nov 8, 2003 (UTC)

Confused about origins[edit]

By the article in Wikipedia, The first Europeans that saw the Natives engaged in Pau Wau - translated it to Pow Wow (to indicate the dance gathering).


Your article about Pow Wow (folk magic) says that the term was European (indicating to me that it originated in Europe). Is this a mistake on my part? Or does the name Pow Wow refer to the Europeanized version of Pau Wau?

My burning question is:

Did the European folk magic (Pow Wow) idea originate & influence the Natives or were the Natives already engaged in Pow Wow's (Pau Wau) - or are we talking about to different intrepretations of Pow Wow that evolved separately?


I am not sure what you are asking. This article, at least, says that the native name was merely borrowed and applied to a pre existing tradition of European-derived folk magic. I understand that "pow wow" originally meant shaman, so this may be the connection. -- Smerdis of Tlön 16:07, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

fmfalcao, they are two different things. The term Pow-Wow was borrowed by european-american settlers and applied to their already existing body of folk-medicine/folk-magic. The Pow-Wow that THIS article refers to is not at all derived from Native American sources. Rather, it is an amalgamation of several traditions most notably, Western European pagan practices, Esoteric Jewish Magic (Kabalah) and herbal medicine. It's a fascinating subject and I'd like to expand on this article some in the future.Lisapollison 17:19, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Hex signs[edit]

I just wanted to mention that this article and hex signs seem to be in direct opposition. The hex signs article leans toward saying they started purely decoritive in nature and have been appropriated by people giving it a magical nature, while this article basically says the opposite.

On making good beer[edit]

The paragraph 'Quotations' is ended with the sentence: "A note from someone that is an actual brewer, this is not a recomended recipe, it will most likely give you a very gingery, and cidery brew that will not likely be pleasant. see for better info." Obviously this needs a citation of some kind, or at least rewritten. What would be the best way to rewrite this? -Shai-kun 21:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering the same thing, it sounds odd and a little sloppy. Reignbow 15:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes - the beer recipe is just a sample of the contents of the text, put in to give an indication of the breadth of its concerns, and its mixture of the supernatural with the domestic. Like the spells, it comes with no guarantee. - Smerdis of Tlön 15:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Roman Catholicism cite in the article[edit]

I can understand the person calling Pow Pow a mix of:

Roman Catholic prayers, magic words, and simple rituals

but, how accurate is that? No doubt some of the folk magic and spells in Pow Wow predates the Protestant Reformation but the groups that Pow Pow originated with were certainly not Roman Catholic. They were Anabaptist in origin. Indeed the man who wrote the book from which many of their commonly used spells come, John George Hohman was himself of similar religious leanings. Would it not be more appropriate to simply subsitute the word Christian where the word Roman Catholic is now used? Pow Wow borrows from the Bible but it's origins are mix of Christian folk beliefs, various european pagan beliefs, herbalism, common sense, simple medicine and Jewish esoterica.Lisapollison 16:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Pow-wow is Braucherei in PA German[edit]

Powwow was a word the English colonists applied first to any gathering of American Indians and then to the apparently unrelated practice of religious healing among the Pennsylvania Dutch, or Germans. The German word for the same system is Braucherei, and its practitioners are called Brauchers. But powwow and powwowers remain more commonly used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brenthere (talkcontribs) 00:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Starting to clean up this article[edit]

I am interested in starting to clean up this article. I just wanted to put that notification out there that I hope to start work on improving this article in the next couple of weeks Eliasell (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Correction of Title - discarding hyphenation[edit]

Does anyone know how to get rid of the hyphenation in the title? It's entirely unnecessary, and has been discarded by scholars in the field for the past 60 years or more. see "Powwowing: A Persistent American Esoteric Tradition, David W Kriebel, Ph.D." in the sources section. Although Brown is cited in this article and uses the hyphenation, his work is outdated. Paedrig777 (talk) 17:54, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

a necessary rewrite[edit]

I am going to begin the process of rewriting this page over the next several weeks in order to provide a better summary of the tradition. This article does not even describe the most basic aspects of what powwowing is, and needs more citation of the solid sources that are available online, by Don Yoder, David Kriebel, and others. Paedrig777 (talk) 23:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

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