Talk:Prelate

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Personal Prelature[edit]

Sorry but the "personal" in Personal Prelature means that people belong to it because of a personal link, as opposed to territorial. Thus a Personal Prelature belongs to nobody (so Pope John Paul II cannot make it "his" but "a" p.p.). Pfortuny 14:54, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

My understanding of the significance of making Opus Dei a "personal prelature" is that local bishops then lack the power to control or suppress the organisation in their dioceses. Are there any other personal prelatures besides Opus Dei? -- Smerdis of Tlön 14:59, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Not exactly: in order for Opus Dei to start working anywhere it requires (and this was explicitly requested by the Founder) the written permission of the local Bishop. Moreover, members of Opus Dei have the same dependence on their local Bishop as any other lay person. "Personal" (as I have edited) refers to non-territorial, no more no less.

Unfortunately (and I am serious bc it would help very much to undertand them) there are still no more Personal Prelatures right now. Pfortuny 15:11, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I'm commenting specifically on the language of the third paragraph of the personal prelature section. It lacks the language required of an encyclopaedia. Someone who is not familiar with the language specific to Catholicism would not know what 'the faithful' means. Perhaps it could be changed to something more neutral such as adherents. 68.0.213.159 03:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The Apostolic Personal Administation of St. John Mary Vianney in Campos, Brasilia is to all practical effects a Personal Prelature - it differs only from them that its head's jurisdiction is vicarious as that of an Apostolic Administrator. Besides, the military ordinariates and the Anglicanorum Coetibus ordinariates share quite much with the Personal Prelatures except the name, and the Mission de France is a Personal Prelature ante verbum, a Territorial Prelature technically with jurisdiction over one village, which was necessary at a time when Personal Prelatures didn't exist. --77.4.122.136 (talk) 00:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Domestic prelate[edit]

Could someone add a small note here to explain what a domestic prelate is? I can find very little information (for example [1]).

I was looking at the article about Karol Langner and it seemed that the indication that he was a domestic prelate was unexplained. There are other pages that mention domestic prelates, but they do not explain what it means, either.

--Matthew 00:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Domestic prelates were a type of honorary prelate before Vatican II. After Vatican II, the pope reformed all honorary titles, so domestic prelates no longer exist. The closest nowadays are "Prelates of Honor" which are a type of monsignor. Pmadrid 15:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


Personal Prelatures vs Congregations[edit]

What is the different between Personal Prelatures and Congregations? I know that Personal Prelatures are supposed to be secular priests but under the jurisdiction of the prelate of their society. But then, isn't that essentially the same thing as an Order? Or is the difference just how secular priests and personal prelature priests don't take vows of poverty? J.J. Bustamante 05:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

According to the American website of the Opus Dei personal prelature, a main difference between a personal prelature and a religious congregation is that the members of the laity who join Opus Dei remain under the jurisdiction of the local bishop, continue to be members of their parish, and continue to have a basicly normal life (including having a normal job), while lay members of religious orders and institutes (religious brothers, friars, monks, religious sisters, and nuns) become subject to the superiors of the order, live in communities with their fellow members, and work for the order. Additionally, canon law treats parishes entrusted to religious orders differently than those entrusted to the secular clergy, and those entrusted to priests of a personal prelature follow the secular norms. I'm sure there are other differences, but this is not an area I've studied in any detail. Gentgeen 07:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

CoC?[edit]

I am new to all of this, does there exist a hiarchy tree of Vatican "Chain of Command" anywhere? I am getting lost with all the sub-levels. To see it visually, with the Holy See and Pope at the top, all the way down to the lowest ranking person, would be great. Thanks for the help. 76.170.119.246 (talk) 09:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, there is not everywhere a chain of command, not even in the military (a German oberfeldwebel may in quite many occasions command even staff officers). Likewise, if we'd begin to try a "chain of command" of the Catholic Church we'd put our Most Holy Lord at the top and the Pope immediately below - all right, so far so clear, but whether local bishops are below the Pope or next to the Pope, with obedient collegiality, is already a matter of discussion, while the latter seems to be sacramentally more accurate but also seems not to go with the image we have of the Church. Then where to fit the Cardinals? It is nothing but a positive law of quite young age that they are even bishops, but when Bl. John Henry Newman asked His local bishop for a blessing, he was seen as extraordinarily humiliating himself being a Cardinal although the latter was a bishop and he was a priest only. Then what right of commanding has a Congregation of the Roman Curia towards a local bishop, while the Pope does not engage personally? I doubt there even are clear ordinances for this, I wouldn't know them in any case. Of course, the bishops all reverently respect the Cardinals - but if they chose not to obey unless someone commands with a clearly juridically given authority - I'm not so sure whether not the Pope needed to engage personally. And where to put the special and unregulated authority of living persons with the reputation of holiness? where to put the somewhat authority of monks, especially monk priests, with the jurisdiction of hearing confessions maybe, but none other? Where to put nuns? Where, even more complicated, to put abbotesses? Is a dean in "command" of his parish priests or is he not? Maybe we'd put it so, but some dioceses have regional deans, other have regional vicars which seems to be the same as to commanding, but isn't the same in reality. (The dean is one of the parish priests, the vicar belongs to the administrative, well, "hierarchy".)--77.4.122.136 (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2010 (UTC)