Talk:Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

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McKenzie[edit]

McKenzie was a FORMER member of the PPCLI. He was a member of the 7th MG Coy when he was killed. In the same way that in the current Afghanistan conflict that former members of the North Saskatchewan Regiment who were members of the PPCLI when they were killed are not N Sask R casualties, they are PPCLI casualties. He is listed in the Book of Remembrance, the Canadian Virual War Memorial and the Commonwealth War Graves Commission as a member of the Canadian Machine Gun Corps. He was not seconded to the 7th MG Coy, or he would have been listed as 'PPCLI.' As such, he should be not included as a PPCLI VC. He can be mentioned as a former member of the regiment who went on to win the VC but not as a PPCLI VC. I've been in uniform since 1981 and have served in the Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's), the 3rd Field Engineer Squadron, The Royal Canadian Dragoons, the 8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's) and the CF Public Affairs Branch. By application of the same logic that makes McKenzie a PPCLI VC, if I were to win a VC, which of the units I have been a member of would be able to claim me as their VC? All of them? It doesn't matter what hat badge you used to wear, it mattters what hat badge you're wearing at the time of the deed. Otherwise, the three RCD VCs from Lelifontein could be claimed by the 4th Princess Louise's Dragoons Guards, the Queen's Own Canadian Hussars and the Governor General's Horse Guards. In the same way that the clothes make the man, the badge makes the man's regiment. The PPCLI has plenty of great history without having to appropriate the history of another unit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kprtqrf06 (talkcontribs) 14:51, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Name of unit[edit]

Why does it say 'name of unit' at the top?

It doesn't any more, apparently Mike 05:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Victoria Cross[edit]

Added George Mullin and Hugh McKenzie as VC recipients, and added location where VC was earned for each winner. This comes after fact checking the statement under History | Victoria Cross (which I consolidated into a previous heading for Victoria Cross recipients):

During the battles around Passchendaele on the 30th of October, 1917 two members of the Regiment won the Victoria Cross for gallantry. Another Victoria Cross was won at Parvillers in August, 1918.

The Victoria Cross Reference site lists 9 men who won the VC at Passchendaele, but only one, George Mullin, was of PPCLI; McKenzie isn't listed. However, CanadianSoldiers.com does list him as PPCLI, but he was KIA, and Victoria Cross Reference says that the VC was not generally awarded to men who were killed during the action for which they might have won the medal, at least not until 1920, although some awards were made retroactively. So, is he an "official" VC winner, or not? He must have been, since in McKenzie's bio article (which pre-existed the change I've made here) his medal is written about as being on public display. But another anomaly is that in McKenzie's WP article he is not described as being with PPCLI (but was of Canadian Machine Gun Corps), aand that his bio was "migrated" from Victoria Cross Reference, which no longer lists him. Perhaps someone else can clear up the confusion. Mike 05:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Lt Hugh McKenzie as indeed a member of the PPCLI but he was seconded to the 7th Brigade Machine Gun Company that was supporting the Regiment. His VC was awarded for his action at Passchendaele at the same time as Mullin. When all the officers in one of the forward PPCLI companies had been killed, McKenzie assumed command to take the final position. Mullin, who was with the Battalion snipers was with him. Typically, the official sites list the unit the recipient was serving with rather than their parent Regiment. In the case of McKenzie I can provide a copy of the PPCLI unit record at the time he was killed to substantiate the fact that he was indeed a member of the PPCLI. (Currently MA student in military history at the University of Victoria and have just completed a thesis of PPCLI in WW1 see www.birthofaregiment.com

Jim Kempling/jimk@uvic.ca Jim Kempling (talk) 02:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Cold War[edit]

I have moved the following from the article, as comments belong on the talk page. I don't know who originally added it to the article, but it looks like it has been there for some time.

A section needs to be added here with regards to PPCLI operations through the Cold War, and in peacekeeping roles, especially in Yugoslavia. A note on the Battle of the Medak Pocket would be very useful, especially since the link Operation Medak pocket has been NPOV bullied by a Croatian contributor. (This can be found at Canadian version of OMBbattle)

Indefatigable 18:45, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Not any more - I've deleted that as a needless fork. I've also rewritten the main Operation Medak pocket to whip it into shape, including a more concise version of the PPCLI episode (which although important was really a sideshow in the course of the operation as a whole). -- ChrisO 19:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Regimental song in popular culture?[edit]

I wonder if it would be appropriate to expand upon the use of the regiment's song in other contexts? To explain how I came here, my young son returned recently from camping in Wales and brought back a version of this song. I was puzzled by the words and it seemed to me that there must be a story behind them. I found this page which discusses the song and its roots in the regiment and then found this Wikipedia entry. While I understand that people close to the regiment might feel aggrieved that their song has been appropriated by youngsters on camping trips, it is surely interesting that a Canadian infantry marching song should find its way to a campfire in Wales.

The lyrics my son came back with are rather different from those on the page here. I hesitate to submit them, but having come this far I will take the risk:

Oh the Princess Pat
Lived in a tree
She sailed across
The Seven Seas
She sailed across
The Channel too
And she took with her
A Rick-a-bam-boo
A Rick-a-bam-boo
Now what is that?
It's something made
By the Princess Pat
It's red and gold
And purple too
That's why it's called
A Rick-a-bam-boo
Now Captain Jack
Had a mighty fine crew
He sailed across
The Channel too
But his ship sank
And yours will too
If you don't take
A Rick-a-bam-boo
Now the Princess Pat
She dived right in
And pulled him back
And his crew too
She saved his life
And his crew too
Because she took with her
A Rick-a-bam-boo

There are various versions of this song on the web, but this is the one dictated to me by my ten-year-old.

Coconino 18:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

It may very well have been appropriated first by a Canadian who heard it or was familiar with it. A former girlfriend of mine I believe had it in her Girl Guides of Canada songbook, and given the international nature of the Scouting/Guiding movement, it is not surprising that certain songs (especially with simple tunes and nonsensical words) would make the rounds. That happens to a ,lot of songs: The abolitionist song "John Brown's Body Lies A-Moulderin' In The Grave" became "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" on the one hand and "John Brown's Body Had A Cold Upon His Chest" on the other. Many United States Army "jody calls" find their way into Canadian and other cadet corps, sometimes but not always bowdlerized. So no, I am not surprised to hear a bowlerized version of "Ric-A-Dam-Doo" sung in Wales.
As for including it here, it may be sufficient to state that parodies or whatnot do exist, as sung by guides/scouts/whatever, and one or two links to the pertinent sites. --SigPig 05:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

WWI history?[edit]

Ok so we have the story of raising the battalion, and then we're right into WWII? I think this needs some expansion! Maury 00:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I have just completed an extensive web site at www.birthofaregiment.com that deals directly with the raising of the PPCLI and the changes to the unit during WW1. This site was produced as the Thesis for my MA at the University of Victoria so viewers should have some confidence that it will be thoroughly reviewed. I will put together a summary for inclusion on this page over the next couple of days.

Jim Kempling Jim Kempling (talk) 02:46, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Boer War[edit]

I thought that the Prince Pat's were the only Canadian Infantry Regiment that was serving before WWI. They were supposed to be in the Boer war with the British. If I am wrong, please tell me. :) (Mrjeremister (talk) 01:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC))

You are wrong. :-) However.... Lt. Col Agar Adamson, and a number of the senior officers of PPLCI at the beginning were Boer War veterans. I have just returned from the Vimy Ridge memorial where I purchased a book of the letters of this officer and he mentions much about the history of the PPLCI, some of which frankly contradicts this article (for instance he indicates that the PPLCI never used the Ross Rifle). I intend to beef this up when I get the chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.253.1.138 (talk) 21:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

The comment about the Ross rifle is not quite true. WQhen the PPCLI was first formed in August 1914 they consisted largely of veterans who had returned to the colours. They were initially issued the Ross Rifle as were all other Canadian Units. Unlike the balance of the CEF, they did not train at Valcartier but rather at Ottawa and then at Levis Quebec. Under their CO, Lt Col Francis Farquhar, an officer of the Coldstream Guards, they thoroughly tested the Ross at Levis and found it wanting. As they were ready for immediate deployment when they arrived in England, they were assigned to the 80th Brigade in the 27th Division in the British Army. It was at that time that they converted to the Lee-Enfield. Ref Ralph Hodder Williams, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 1914-1919, Hodder and Stoughton Ltd, Toronto, (1923) page 15

Jim Kempling Jim Kempling (talk) 02:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Question about this unit service in Croatia :[edit]

Copy directly from other Wikipedia article

>> The events that followed remain controversial, as Canadian authorities reported that the Croatian army intermittently fought against the advancing Canadian Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry before finally retreating after sustaining 27 fatalities.[220] The Croatian ministry of defense and UN officer's testimonies given during the Ademi-Norac trial deny that the battle occurred. >>

Can you check for more informations on this subject. The section i just copied is from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence

93.143.50.3 (talk) 00:35, 6 August 2011 (UTC)Soundwave