Talk:Provisional Irish Republican Army arms importation
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I didn't mean to wipe out your article, I just tried to fix a little typo in one section (to which the article was reduced on saving, sorry about that). Tried to revert that but found the previous version locked, I don't what went on last night... So I decided to wait until Monday, maybe server load would be less. By then you had it already restored. Gabh mo leithscéal - --Atirador 19:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
No worries Jdorney 19:12, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Love the article! I was just editing it so its a bit clearer. I put a cite in for the Hk19- is there such a weapon? Thanks Fluffy999 21:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
- Hi again i've added some things and have linked to this page from the IICD page after adding to it also. I still have an issue with the section on recent arms sales, but I do some research into it and see if I can find any more convincing items/evidence to put in there. Fluffy999 23:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
- Added more detail on the previous Libyan arms shipments from Bowyer Bell- could make a nonsense of the Janes guesstimates so pointed that out in the footnotes. Depends of course if the PIRA used any of those SAM's, there is some ancedotal evidence they may have. Fluffy999 14:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi,The HK19 refers to a Heckler and Koch rifle. However they acronym may not be accurate, I would have to check it out. There is, or was, a citation in the article about them, they were bought from the US by Megahey in the late 1970s or early '80s. A couple were recovered at Loughall in 1987, see Provisional IRA East Tyrone Brigade. Re the SAMs, yes, some certainly got through, but by all accounts (Moloney Secret History, Harnden Bandit Country), they were never used in action. They were test fired in South Armagh a couple of times but they couldn't be got to hit anything, so were stored away until last year. Jdorney 19:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
- No problem, there was some feedback on Talk:Heckler & Koch about the "HK19" Fluffy999 19:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- There is no HK 19 rifle or SMG. There is however a HK 91 rifle, a semi-auto version of the G3. --D.E. Watters 19:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- I believe that Gabriel Megahey purchased some semi-automatic H&K rifles (which would have been HK-91s and/or HK-93s, the two main types available at the time). But most of the H&K G3-style rifles you see Provisional volunteers using are the Swedish-built AK4s, which the IRA imported from Sweden in the mid-80s. Also, I am fairly certain they never, EVER used the SAMs, except in one test-firing. All of the helicopters they destroyed were downed with HMGs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 19:25, 27 April 2007 (talk • contribs) 18.104.22.168
Disparity in weapons
Someone just changed the weapons footnote on the janes estimate to explain the Janes /Bowyer Bell mismatch. Its maybe accurate to say that they got captured but I dont remember any capture of SAMs during the period talked about- might be wrong and will need to check. To clarify that is the dispartity I was talking about:
- Janes says 7 unused SAMs destroyed
- Bowyer Bell says 12 got through
Its not a huge issue, and from the Talk page archive 003 over on Talk:Provisional Irish Republican Army/Archive 003 theres an unsigned comment saying some were fired at British Army helicopters: "Note to above the "Tet" style offensive was cancelled due to the IRA's lack of a relaible counter to British Army helicopters. The SA-7 "Strela" missles procured from Lybia were made in the 1960's and were easily defeated by 80's era anti-heat seeking flares & shields mounted on BA Helo's. The PIRA did actually test fire several of the missiles at BA Helo's only to see them utterly fail to lock on to their targets 22.214.171.124 12:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC) K.B."
Dont know how accurate all that is but its probably about right. Fluffy999 16:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that's pretty much what an IRA source says in Moloney's Secret History alright. But he says the Tet thing was cancelled due to the loss of the element of surprise as well, due to the Eksund's interception. Jdorney 13:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Right, plus the informer factor. PIRA in metropolitan centers been riddled with informers/criminal element last 15 years. The AC could only rely on rural units- people who have a long family linked tradition- harder to penetrate etc. to successfully pull off operations. Fluffy999 15:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
- I will not be responding to messages left on my talkpage or on pages for articles I have worked on. Will no longer be contributing to wikipedia. Thank you. Fluffy999 13:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Father Patrick Ryan
- What sophisticated timer, it was the same type of timer used in a video recorder, so it wouldn't have been hard to get.--padraig 21:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
My impression from reading newspaper reports in 1988 was that Fr Ryan obtained the timer when he took holidays in Switzerland. As to how sophisticated it was, this is a quote from a Guardian article about the conviction of Patrick Magee for the bombing that took place on October 12, 1984:
- "A police operations room in the hotel monitored the building during the conference week. But Magee had circumvented all those security measures by planting the bomb on September 17, 1984, setting its 'deadly accurate' timing mechanism for a time 24 days, six hours and 35 minutes later."Phase4 21:49, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
In 1984 that would have been regarded as sophisticated, video recorders where not as commonplace then as they are today, also it would have been the first time the IRA used such a device.--padraig 22:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Proposed move....sort of
Any objections to this being moved to Provisional Irish Republican Army arms importation and manufacture once I finish an addition I'm working on. The IRA's manufacture of various types of improvised weaponry has been covered quite a lot and it doesn't really fit in the other two main articles, but with a slight change in scope of this article it'll work quite well I think. 2 lines of K303 14:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
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