Talk:Pseudoscience

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Arbitration Committee Decisions on Pseudoscience

The Arbitration Committee has issued several principles which may be helpful to editors of this and other articles when dealing with subjects and categories related to "pseudoscience".

Principles
Four groups
Please read before starting

First of all, welcome to Wikipedia's Pseudoscience article. This article represents the work of many contributors and much negotiation to find consensus for an accurate and complete representation of the topic.

Newcomers to Wikipedia and this article may find that it's easy to commit a faux pas. That's OK — everybody does it! You'll find a list of a few common ones you might try to avoid here.

A common objection made often by new arrivals is that the article presents the fields it lists as "pseudoscience" in an unsympathetic light or violates Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy (WP:NPOV). The sections of the WP:NPOV that apply directly to this article are:

The contributors to the article continually strive to adhere to these to the letter. Also, splitting the article into sub-articles is governed by the Content forking guidelines.

These policies have guided the shape and content of the article, and new arrivals are strongly encouraged to become familiar with them prior to raising objections on this page or adding content to the article. Other important policies guiding the article's content are No Original Research (WP:NOR) and Cite Your Sources (WP:CITE).

Tempers can and have flared here. All contributors are asked to please respect Wikipedia's policy No Personal Attacks (WP:NPA) and to abide by consensus (WP:CON).

Notes to editors:
  1. This article uses scientific terminology, and as such, the use of the word 'theory' to refer to anything outside of a recognised scientific theory is ambiguous. Please use words such as 'concept', 'notion', 'idea', 'assertion'; see Wikipedia:Words to avoid#Theory.
  2. Please use edit summaries.

Ayurveda[edit]

Ayurveda is not pseudoscience. It is proven to be effective, it is practiced all over India and has been extensively successful. Please do not quote wrong information. I have seen, read and experienced Ayurvedic medicine and I can affirm this with necessary references to whom so ever who needs it. Please do not revert changes. You are not the only one who is concerned about the sanctity of Wikipedia.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Deadly437 (talkcontribs) 15:43, 27 October 2014 (UTC

ayurveda is prescientific Traditional medicine - diagnosis and treatment are based on prescientific notions of the body. to the extent that people limited their claims about ayurveda to discussing traditional medicine we wouldn't need to talk about pseudoscience. But to the extent that people - like you do in your message above! - claim it is "successful" you are making scientific claims that are without basis of evidence in science. hence, "pseudoscience." Jytdog (talk) 15:59, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Certainly pseudoscience when claims such as made here are made. Our article isn't categorised as such, though there is debate. I think it should be. -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 16:28, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

May 2015[edit]

Editors are still trying to present this nonsense as not being pseudoscience. Ayurveda is to science as astrology is to astronomy. -- Scjessey (talk) 22:40, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

comment[edit]

Lately I have removed several pages from Category:Pseudoscience; on the grounds that ‘pseudoscience’ is a judgmental epithet; also it is, IMO, a very stigmatizing label, so it should be used sparingly. Spanish Wikipedia says it well: “No olvide que para utilizar esta categoría debe de haber una referencia verificable, fiable en la materia y sólida que especifique que la disciplina categorizada es una pseudociencia.” Rough translation: “In order for a page to be placed in this category, there must be reliable sources specifying that said subject is pseudoscience.” I strongly support this policy; subjects should only be categorized as pseudoscience if a preponderance of reliable sources (as I pointed out, a source with a conflict of interest is not reliable) say they are such. In other words, the burden of proof should be on those who claim a subject is pseudoscience, not on those who claim it is not.

Some of the pages I removed: Continental drip, Steatopygia.

Okay?--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 04:58, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Good catches ... --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:18, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
You might make some good catches, but your efforts would be better spent in finding those sources, because of my concerns below.
You're removing the meta-category for many things which are obvious pseudoscience (like astrology), and which are in subcategories of Pseudoscience (like Alternative medicine) (AM). Many (if not all) AM subjects belong in Category:Pseudoscience. It's best to leave them as they are. You risk being seen as a vandal. I suggest you do some fast backpedaling and undo a lot of what you're doing. Keep in mind that we don't care whether something is a pejorative or judgmental epithet, although with BLPs we are more careful. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
In addition to your two examples you also removed Vitalism. What is the list of items you removed? Lklundin (talk) 19:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I removed article Rudolf Hippius from Category:Advocates of pseudoscience; said category, it says plainly, should contain only subcategories.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 02:59, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

It's not supposed to have articles only because the articles should be placed in more specific categories. Removing him from the category wasn't the best course of action here. Placing him in a more specific category was. I've gone ahead and done that.   — Jess· Δ 07:41, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
As I remember, the list was to provide examples and not necessarily be all-inclusive. Editors should know by now that "obvious pseudoscience" clearly betrays an agenda based on opinion rather than neutral editing. Once you begin an itemized list like this one, there really is no end. After you include the "obvious pseudoscience," then everything else begins to look as obvious.
Deciding something is pseudoscience and then looking for proof is certainly biased reporting. I call your attention to how User:Jytdog advised an editor in how to produce a usable reference to support an "obvious pseudoscience." I think more thought to the help User:Solomonfromfinland is offering would be more constructive than fear of missing a possible pseudoscience here and there. Tom Butler (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Health and education implications subsection[edit]

this subsection needs working over... rambly. FreeSamaritan it is not clear to me why you are trying to give specific examples - first a journal, then a specific homeopathy center - as a 'reference' for homeopathy. why are you doing that? neither of these are reasonable sources for what homeopathy is. thx. Jytdog (talk) 13:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Pseudoscience is not a pejorative[edit]

Neither of these article sources call the word "pseudoscience" a "pejorative."

--Lightbreather (talk) 05:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I found another good ref. -- BullRangifer (talk) 16:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)