Talk:Psychiatric hospital

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Biased statement[edit]

In as much as I sympathize with the rationale behind the argument in the statement below from the History section, the context leads me to believe that it is biased. There are probably a number of other reasons that can be cited for the increase in the number of cases, besides the growth of psychiatry.

>>in England at the beginning of the nineteenth century there were, perhaps, a few thousand "lunatics" housed in a variety of disparate institutions but by 1900 that figure had grown to about 100,000. That this growth coincided with the growth of alienism, later known as psychiatry, as a medical specialism is not coincidental.<< Marty55 (talk) 03:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree, one of those reasons was that it was known that there were many people who were mentally ill but for lack of an alternative were placed in the UK workhouses, the building of the county asylums in the England and Wales was specifically to transfer these people into modern caring facilities where they could be looked after. Having moved them you could then count them correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ianmurray5 (talkcontribs) 11:31, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Abuse and neglect[edit]

I have been reading through this article and stumbled upon the following:

"In 2009, a visitor at the Philhaven psychiatric ward reported a patient walking slowly and moaning. She said when the staff picked her up, she looked starved. Two other patients were given straight jackets and berated, pushed. Another visitor reported one staff member calling his autistic child an animal[,] picked [it] up and drugged [it]. Another patient, who is currently writing this section, was subjected head-banging starvation, and loss of visitation rights. He was quickly refed, hydrated and discharged. Despite telling his parents, they didn't listen. The staff made the head-banging look like he was doing it, allaying suspicion. During his stay, he witnessed a 12 year old girl,[sic] die right beside him.

The author of this section wants the world to know so much about his experiences, he decided to write them on Wikipedia. To this day, his parents won't let him tell anyone about it."

I could go into how it doesn't meet the formal standards for a Wikipedia article, but I think this is quite a solid case of WP:NOTRELIABLE, however much it pains me. I understand that the person who wrote this article feels like his story should be shared with the world, (and personally I agree), but I don't think Wikipedia is the right platform to do this. If the author feels like his story could be shared with the world, I would be more than willing to help him (my talk page is right here), but unfortunately it does not befit a Wikipedia article.

If there is no opposition to this, I will remove the section. AnnaOurLittleAlice (talk) 05:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 7 July 2018[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. There is a clear absence of a consensus for the proposed move. bd2412 T 03:10, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Psychiatric hospitalPsychiatric institution – Consistent with History of psychiatric institutions. 73.100.199.220 (talk) 14:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

But that NGRAM only goes up to 2008, so it a decade out of date. jamacfarlane (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose. The term "institution" is outdated. "Psychiatric hospital" is used by the NHS in the UK NHS and there are 18 times more peer reviewed academic journals using "psychiatric hospital" than "psychiatric institution". jamacfarlane (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose For the reasons cited by Jamacfarlane. Anywikiuser (talk) 13:52, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 17 July 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. At this time there is strong opposition to the proposal rooted in interpretation of WP:NCMED and scientific usage. There is a fair amount of "I don't like it" going on, but there is also some more rational argument showing there is no strong evidence to why the move is preferable, and there is evidence that the existing title is in fact the most common in reliable scientific sources as opposed an unfiltered google count. (non-admin closure)Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 18:10, 24 July 2018 (UTC)


Psychiatric hospitalMental hospital – Per WP:COMMONNAME based on this Google Ngram that shows it as the dominant term in the modern age. -- Netoholic @ 09:59, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

  • Oppose per the move request above. Natureium (talk) 11:50, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose encyclopedia. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:31, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
    What does this mean?? Natureium (talk) 22:42, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
    It means this is an encyclopedia, has to use neutral and respectable language. The proposal is not much short of "nutfarm". Besides the ngram actually showing the two variants of psychiatric having demolished "mental hospital" In ictu oculi (talk) 23:12, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
    It does? Here is a version from 2000-2008 with all the "psychiatric" phrases combined, and "mental hospital + mental hospitals" still comes out on top. (I have no opinion on this move at the moment.) ekips39 (talk) 00:25, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
    By the way in response to the concern raised in the above section, it doesn't seem to be possible to make it go beyond 2008. They must not have any data beyond that point. ekips39 (talk) 19:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. "Mental hospital" is an outdated (and to some, offensive) term. I don't see how a n-gram showing its popularity between 1940 and 2000 makes it the dominant term in the modern age. There was a move request for this same article closed only this morning and no consensus to move from "psychiatric hospital". Per WP:NCMED, "the article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded". I've searched The BMJ for research articles published in the last 10 years which have these terms in the title or abstract. "Mental hospital" has 4 results and "psychiatric hospital" has 18 results. I ran a Google search of NHS websites, although I recognise this is by no means a completely reliable indicator. "Mental hospital" has 1,010 results and "psychiatric hospital" has 6,010 results. If you have further evidence "mental hospital" is the dominant term I am happy to reconsider my view, but I am really skeptical at present. jamacfarlane (talk) 21:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
    1800-2008, actually. Even looser definition of "modern age". ekips39 (talk) 00:30, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Support as I think this is the WP:COMMONNAME, and I disagree that it is in any way offensive. Are Mental health professional, Mental health, and Mental disorder offensive too? I don't think so. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:52, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose dated, and seen as offensive. Not been used for these establishments for many years. Secretlondon (talk) 13:59, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose The move would be incompatible with the scientific literature, which almost universally uses the term "psychiatric hospital" or "psychiatric institution". The term "Mental Hospital" is also considered to be extremely offensive within the psychiatric community as a whole. 71.91.178.54 (talk) 10:32, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
    That's not based on any evidence, and frankly sounds more like a pretentious assumption. But Wikipedia goes by, not what something is called only in scientific circles, but what it is most commonly known as among all reliable sources. -- Netoholic @ 06:32, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
    Netoholic, that's true for most articles, but not medical-related ones. For example, heart attack redirects to myocardial infarction, even though most people would call it a "heart attack". Per WP:NCMED, "the article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded". jamacfarlane (talk) 09:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
    Just because its a term related to medicine doesn't make it a "scientific or recognised medical name" like one would find related to diseases or anatomy. The scientific literature is about equally mixed (43% vs 57%) between usage of "mental hospital" (265k) and "psychiatric hospital" (351k). It is far from "dominant" use one would expect if it was actually a "scientific or recognised medical name". Second, where a local guideline WP:NCMED conflicts with broader policy like WP:Article titles, the policy supercedes and common use among any reliable, secondary sources is used - a stat which is demonstrated by the Google Ngram link in the first post. What I think is that non-medical editors think that "psychiatric hospital" sounds more professional, and guess that its used more than the evidence shows.... and they are forgetting that this article isn't for medical professionals, but a general topic, and so is not appropriate to use elevated jargon over the common name. -- Netoholic @ 10:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

al-Walid's hospital[edit]

Hi all,

It seems like this particular section ("psychiatric hospital was built by the Muslims in Baghdad in 705 AD, under the leadership of the Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid ibn Abd al-Malik") is a result of some confusion. The source in this article names its own source as Youssef & Youssef ("Evidence for the existence of schizophrenia in medieval Islamic society"), which does not actually claim that anywhere. Anyway, the supposed hospital was in Damascus, not Baghdad, and it was actually just a leper house (Development of Hospitals in Islam, Sami Hamarneh: "careful examination of a much earlier and more reliable source, the history of al-Tabari (d 923), shows that al-Walid's generous act of helping the sick was mainly a philanthropic decree to aid the blind and the disabled and to establish separate quarters wherein lepers could be confined to prevent the spread of the disease.") The confusion with Baghdad is probably due to a later hospital built there under the caliph Harun al-Rashid.

Just figured I'd mention that in case anyone happens to come across the same claim on other pages (see WP: Jagged 85 cleanup). Dragoon17 (talk) 06:40, 26 August 2018 (UTC)