Talk:Ptolemy II Philadelphus

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Comments[edit]

Why isn't this page at Ptolemy II Philadelphus, as the intro would suggest?

(Note that the Seleucids are Seleucus I Nicator. and so on.) Wikipedia:naming conventions does not forbid either, by its own wording. Septentrionalis!

I fully agree. "Ptolemy"=Egypt, anyway, so it's completely redundant. john k 19:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

In carrying out this program, I find that Cleopatra's son is at Ptolemy Philadelphus, but half the inbound links are intended to head here; and presumably there will be more, as more public-domain text is wikified. I propose to solve this by making Ptolemy Philadelphus a redirect here, after moving that article to a suitably disambiguated location. Please discuss this at Talk:Ptolemy Philadelphus. Septentrionalis 19:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


I am very confused about the bottom of the "Reign" section. There is discussion there about his wives being related to each other, but not his being related to them. Ptolemy II married his full sister, Arsinoe II. This is why they were called "Philadelphus" meaning "brother-loving" and "sister-loving." This made radical changes in Egyptian culture, making incestuous marriages en vogue in Egypt for a time. Lysimachus was the father of one of Ptolemy's wives named Arsinoe, and the husband of another of Ptolemy's wives named Arsinoe. This is confusing. Maybe we need a family tree visual? Was Ptolemy the uncle of the wife that was not his full sister? It's also confusing that Arsinoe II is (apparently) older than Arsinoe I. Was this a mistake? My source is Encyclopedia Britannica. MadVoo (talk) 04:58, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Disagree, the concept of Brotherly-love / "Philadeplhus" derived from Alexander's Hellenism. Philadelphus has a strong humanitarian(literally freeing slaves) and philanthropic(literally filling libraries) legacy which has nothing to do with consanguinous unions; which are not uncommon among Egyptian royalty. Most of ntrs have brother-sister relationships (eg. Asa-Aset;Set-Nebthet;Seb-Nut,Shu-Tefnut, etc) Phildelphus didn't introduce that concept -- it was there from the beginning. Ptolemais Philopater was not married to his father and Philometor wasn't married to his mother. Moreover Ptolemais Caesaer Philopater Philomater wasn't

married to either of his parents!...MBJ...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.234.83 (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC) 

I too am confused as Lysimachus is listed as his offspring by Arsinoe I and this links to Lysimachus who was father to Arsinoe I and born much earlier. Athosfolk (talk) 01:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I believe Arsinoe I was Lysimachus' daughter by a previous marriage. See here; Lysimachus was married twice before his marriage to Arsinoe II. Also, Ptolemy II and Arsinoe I apparently had a son also named Lysimachus. His article is at Lysimachus of Egypt, while that of Arsinoe I's father (and Arsinoe II's first husband) is at Lysimachus. john k (talk) 02:15, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

date of co-reign[edit]

I've corrected the beginning of Ptolemy's co-reign in accordance with the Oxford Classical Dictionary ed.3. Some give the date as 286. Ory Amitay (talk) 13:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Family[edit]

The insinuations that Ptolemy married Arsinoë II to follow Egyptian customs seems to be mostly discredited. Even the subsection linked only describes in detail Ptolemaic incest as customary which seems to be a cyclical definition. Modern scholarship tends to consider the lack of evidence for regular intra-familial marriages as stronger evidence than the Greek rumors of incest among them. While the reasons are unclear, a fair bit of modern scholarship argues that this incest was coupled with the deification of his family members to cement the dynasty as divine like the pharaonic rule before them. The incest being beneficial to this image as Isis/Osiris and Zeus/Hera were divine examples of incest that they could emulate.

I'd definitely consider removing the reference to the custom egyptian incest as by now it's mostly discredited. Aside from that, it's up for debate how much to insert considering so much of the debate around ptolemaic incest continues. --Snafu66 17:18, 1 June 2017 (UTC) [1] [2]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

  1. ^ Ager, Sheila L. 2006. "The Power of Excess: Royal Incest and the Ptolemaic Dynasty." Anthropologica 48 (2): 165-186.
  2. ^ Parca, Maryline. "The Women of Ptolemaic Egypt: The View from Papyrology." In A Companion to Women in the Ancient World, edited by Sharon L. James and Sheila Dillon, 316-28. Blackwell Publishing Ltd., 2012.