Talk:Radio North Sea International
- 1 What about the bombing?
- 2 Lockerbie bombing
- 3 Too many images
- 4 References to Flights Completely Incomprehensible
- 5 Mebo II used as target practice
- 6 Presenter List
- 7 Deletion of irrelevant material
- 8 Proposal to change title of article
- 9 Edits by Deathwatch2006 and its sock puppets
- 10 Seeking Consensus
- 11 The "See Also" Section
- 12 Fair use rationale for Image:Mao1970.jpg
- 13 Radio Northsea National
- 14 Deleted paragraph
- 15 VOA Ref
- 16 Red links
- 17 References and citations
What about the bombing?
What about the bombing? Darlingsara 16:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- Good question, Darlingsara. I suggest you take a look at Pan Am Flight 103, Investigation into the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, Pan Am Flight 103 bombing trial and Alternative theories of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. Please let us know how you get on.Phase4 20:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- Known that for a long time, even had a visit from MEBO AG to my personal web shite. Strange to think all those rhumours about the reason for the jamming, had at least some truth: MEBO AG did trade with East Germany, as Meister said at the trial. Such a good sounding radio, run by utter scheißters.
What about the 1971 bombing? Sarahdarling 19:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- I wasn't previously aware of the 1971 bombing but – thanks to your latest edits – I am now!Phase4 10:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- You probably thought my "the 1971 bombing" remark somewhat brusk. Sorry.
While of course it can always be improved, doesn't mention that RNI renamed itself Radio Caroline International for the 1970 UK general election for example, I have made a good job of RNI, something that at least for the sake of Lockerbie, there needs to be a record. Sarahdarling 00:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, it seems that the Lockerbie affair is about to unravel: see SCCRC.Phase4 21:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Too many images
The article as it stands is virtually unreadable: most of the images are too big and others are too small or irrelevant to the thread of the article.
I'd like to remove as many as ten of the images, if you agree.
Sources are lacking too: do we have anything to corroborate the sinking of the two vessels (Angela and Mebo II in the Gulf of Sidra in 1984? An online reference would do!Phase4 21:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
- I'll make a start at thinning out the images.Phase4 20:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- I've refined and reverted to my last version.Phase4 10:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
References to Flights Completely Incomprehensible
There is no explanation in the article whatsoever for the references to the downed Panam flights, or any of that material in the reference section; and the link with Gulf of Sidra is indeed uncorroborated. Readers who come here to find out about the radio station will be mystified. Either the references need to be about something in the article itself, of they should be removed - as should the speculation about the sinking of the vessels.KD
- I fully agree with these comments. The links with the Lockerbie bombing were removed in previous edits. I'll do a new section of the article to bring in and, hopefully, to explain the currently orphaned references.Phase4 09:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- No big objection, but I'd just comment that the story is perhaps best dealt with in Bollier's own article or elsewhere here, unless there is some specific connection with the radio station of which I'm ignorant. If a former director of Radio Luxembourg was involved in this kind of thing, I still wouldn't expect to read about it in an article on Radio Luxembourg. Maybe a quick comment with re-directs to the right articles?KD Tries Again 15:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)KD
I've actually added three new sections which I hope clarify the situation.Phase4 15:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- Added or copied?RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON 20:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
How about inserted?Phase4 20:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
You don't say whether the machine gun batteries used to attack USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) were installed on former MEBO I, former MEBO II or perhaps both ships? --RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON 22:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Mebo II used as target practice
- No problems with the material, but I would strongly urge you to find a more appropriate location. Again, there is no citation for the claim that the Mebo II was involved in anything in the Gulf of Sidra, there's no reference to RNI in the Preliminary Skirmishes section. Subsequent material would be better placed in the Bollier article, by all means with a link here. The bottom line is that this article is about Radio North Sea International, which ceased transmission in 1974. The events you discuss begin twelve years later.KD Tries Again 19:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)KD
- Thanks for your suggestions, KD.
- What we are talking about here are the ships that Mebo used for RNI transmissions. Those ships were refitted in Holland and, still owned by Edwin Bollier, are chronicled by references 5 and 6 as proceeding from Rotterdam to Libya in 1977, where they re-broadcast Libyan state radio both domestically and internationally for at least three years. What became of Mebo I and Mebo II is not clear, but a previous editor of the article says they were used as military target practice in the Gulf of Sidra.
- It seems to me perfectly reasonable to tag these three sections at the end of a 17-section article to complete the picture of RNI. The alternative would be to transfer the whole RNI article to the Bollier article, which I guess you would regard as pretty excessive. I'm happy with the RNI as it now stands, and thank you for pointing out its original deficiencies.Phase4 20:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- The target practice claim needs to be removed if it can't be sourced. As you say, they weren't broadcasting RNI shows in the time they were anchored off Libya. RNI had closed. I think the basic point, though, is that Bollier's supposed involvement with the flights has nothing to do with even the Mebo vessels, let alone with RNI. It's several steps removed from the subject of the article. Could we not get some consensus on a redirect, placing your material in a more appropriate article? KD
The source for the sinking of two Libyan "radio ships" in the Gulf of Sidra is at Pan Am Flight 103#Motive. In my view, there is no need for a different article, redirect etc.Phase4 22:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Citation of a Wikipedia article is not sufficient - the claim is unsourced in that article too. Most of this article is great. There is no reason why it should veer away from its subject in the closing sections. Since we proceed by consensus, can you give any reason for the relevance to the radio station itself of actions by its former owner Bollier, unrelated even to Mebo vessels, twelve years after the station closed down?KD Tries Again 18:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)KD
- I've asked the previous editor who claimed Mebo II was used as target practice (Kingboyk) to provide the source of the allegation. Once we have the source, I'll deal with the other points you raise.Phase4 21:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I think just remove it unless it can be sourced, as it's not vital to the article. I've found a BBC report about the Lockerbie trial, which mentions Mebo and a pirate radio vessel being sold to Libya (interesting and relevant enough) but not what happened to the vessel (peripheral). Alas I don't have any other sources on this other than Google.
Oh, by the way, I didn't write the claim in question; I merely created this article as a split from another article - see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Radio_North_Sea_International&diff=127936022&oldid=99044130 --kingboyk 20:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for this, kingboyk. I see that it was Lee M who originally inserted the target practice claim, so have now asked Lee M to source the allegation.Phase4 15:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Lee M has sourced the target practice claim here. Any probs?Phase4 21:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- Isn't that getting close to admitting you were wrong when you removed references to the target practice sinking of former MEBO I and MEBO II? Perhaps you are nothing more than an arrogant pest who delights in upsetting others, but who himself has nothing worthwhile to offer humanity? Just a thought. --RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON 23:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Lee M has sourced the target practice claim here. Any probs?Phase4 21:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
- It's good to see a positive RNI contribution from you, KD. You'll need to run a check on some of the DJs you've added, though. For example, the "Robin Banks" you put in is not RNI's Robin Banks (aka Robin Adcroft) - see http://www.offshoreradio.co.uk/djs7a.htm.Phase4 21:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Deletion of irrelevant material
The article contained a lot of material which I've now removed, relating to Meister & Bollier's political activities subsequent to the ships moving to Libya. All fascinating enough, but this article is about the RADIO STATION and not its owners' extracurricular activities except where they impact directly on the station itself. Lee M 13:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Proposal to change title of article
The article is called Radio North Sea International. However, the station's official title is Radio Nordsee International (as painted on the stern of the Mebo II). I therefore propose that the article be renamed Radio Nordsee International with Radio North Sea International and Radio Noordzee International redirecting there. Lee M 13:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
- Be careful you don't restore the article to its original name and make sure you do not restore its content. Otherwise you will admit that by hijacking the article, all you have done is create work for yourselves, and this article was accurate - index.php?title=Radio_North_Sea_International&diff=141142316&oldid=141140734.--RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON 14:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with Lee M's proposal to change the name of the article to Radio Nordsee International together with the suggested redirecting.Phase4 17:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
- I think this needs more careful consideration. The article as it stands is primarily about the English language radio station - there is almost no information about the Dutch station. The English radio station was called "North Sea", not "Nordsee" or "Nordzee." As for "Nordsee" being the official name - I can see that it's painted on the ship, but it's a German word. It had never occurred to me before to wonder why the name on the ship is in German. Because the boat's owners are Swiss? But let's stop and think before we decide that a German name painted on the boat is ipso facto the official name of the station, especially as the announcers didn't use it. Let's also consider what visitors to English-language Wikipedia are most likely to search for.
- I do agree with the removal of the extraneous material about Libya, etc. KD Tries Again 15:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)KD
The official name of the station is RADIO NORDSEE INTERNATIONAL.(RNI) As per Zurich office nameplate; letterhead. Therefore, that's how the article should be titled. User: Jamaica55
Edits by Deathwatch2006 and its sock puppets
The indefinitely blocked editor Deathwatch2006 (and its sock puppets Johnde517Mol, RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON, KarlDoenitz, Roderick Dadak, Tunbridgewellpsychopath and Sarahdarling) has now been joined by AndyArcher. I have reverted the latter's latest RNI edit to the last version by Lee M.Phase4 20:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I deplore vandalism, but there is no point just removing the tag about unreferenced factual material. What we need are references, or the material should be removed.KD Tries Again 18:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)KD
- Isn't that getting close to admitting you were wrong when you removed references to the target practice sinking of former MEBO I and MEBO II? Perhaps you are nothing more than an arrogant pest who delights in upsetting others, but who himself has nothing worthwhile to offer humanity? Just a thought. --RICHARD GEOFFREY ASHTON
I don't think the source for the target practice claim meets Wikipedia criteria. In any case, I think the sensible way to deal with the issue is to remove the paragraphs which deal with events long after RNI closed down. It's not a question of losing the material from Wikipedia - the article will still link to the Mebo's owners, etc. I think Lee M agrees? It is customary to try to reach consensus on this. I'd ask editors to say whether they are for or against.KD Tries Again 20:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)KD
- I'd appreciate less of your vandalism, before you next advocate consensus, psycho.--Konalgia911 01:47, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
The "See Also" Section
I have no big issue with the cite for the sinking of the vessels, so the only remaining change I'd like to see is the removal of the links under the See Also heading. In fact, I think this is where I came in: I still don't see anything which makes the two Sidra incidents, or that specific link about Lockerbie, related to the radio station, to the vessels, or to the article in general. Please point out if I am missing something.KD Tries Again 14:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)KD
Fair use rationale for Image:Mao1970.jpg
Image:Mao1970.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 03:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Radio Northsea National
It was owned by John de Mol Jr and the group that ran the Dutch service of RNI. User:Jamaica55 16:15 10 May 2009 (EST)
Deleted the following paragraph as pov (and ungrammatical):
- Arguably the most popular of all ship-based radio stations, RNI's staff were trained to standards that still, in recordings, convey a palpable warmth, over 30 years after the station's closure. RNI's signature theme, Man of Action by the Les Reed Orchestra, was also popular.
Moved this to an NB at end, just to clarify, rather than muddle
A couple of red links existed for individuals, and have been removed. If relevant articles are created, they can be reinstated --Keith 13:49, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
References and citations
I have gone through and added a number of citation/references. These have all been "online" sources:- Vic Pelli's Book , Bob LeRoi's pages , and the RNI timeline and they can actually be used for most of the refs, interchangeably. These do not superseed or differ from the printed material, also referenced. --Keith 16:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)