Talk:Ravensbrück concentration camp

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Merger proposal[edit]

Request received to merge articles: Malchow concentration camp into Ravensbrück concentration camp; dated prior to November 2015: GenQuest "Talk to Me"

[ transcluded discussion from Wikipedia:Proposed mergers noticeboard]:

  • Oppose. Look again, better yet, withdraw this nomination due to possible error in judgement. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 07:19, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Strongly disagree with Poeticbent and thank you not to include POV in talk. Subcamps are not historically notable for their names, because they were not given names. See [[1]]. Very simple to observe that subcamps were redirected to the geographical areas where they were located, because the subcamps did not have proper names. Treatment of Malchow concentration camp nonstandard and nonperformant. Stan94301 (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Malchow Concentration Camp is on concern list for no sourcing and/or OR. Cannot find authoritative sourcing that a camp went by the proper name "Malchow." As it is a sub-camp of Ravensbrück, propose merging in here.
???? You should not start a new thread with a bad i-link to Malchow concentration camp and with what you cannot find online, and than within minutes (without waiting for feedback from the community) begin changing other articles to fit your confusion. More references can be added.[2] Poeticbent talk 06:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Death toll[edit]

This article speaks of 50.000, 90.000 or even 117.000 deaths. Currently the number of 20.000 - 30.000 deaths is used by historians. Why the number is still so high and thus wrong on this Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.174.223.58 (talkcontribs) from Utrecht, Netherlands

The weblinks are there for you. Why don't you click on any of them before asking. Poeticbent talk 17:28, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Deutsches historisches museum https://www.dhm.de/lemo/kapitel/zweiter-weltkrieg/holocaust/ravensbrueck/

ITS Arolsen https://www.its-arolsen.org/en/research-and-education/historical-background/anniversaries/index.html?expand=4319&cHash=bb34f447c9816b195e68391b542eec47

Also the book written by Stefan Hördler shows a number of 28.000.

Also the total amount of prisoners is 153.000; lot of sources say 132.000 women, 20.000 men and 1.000 kids — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.174.223.58 (talk) 17:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

1. "Stefan Hördler, who has conducted research on Ravensbrück, estimates that about 28,000 women perished at the camp. This figure does not include the many thousands who died on the so-called “death marches” in the final days of the war, when the SS evacuated the camp of all prisoners able to walk. It also does not factor in deaths of women who had been transferred to other camps or satellite facilities and perished there. Stefan Hördler, “Die Schlussphase des Konzentrationslagers Ravensbrück. Personalpolitik und Vernichtung,” Zeitschrift für Geschichtswissenschaft 56 (2008), 247." – Gengler
2. "Between the years 1939 and 1945, the camp administration enrolled about 132,000 women and children, 1,000 female juveniles and 20,000 men as prisoners to-be... The overall death toll (men, women and children) at Ravensbrück is between 20,000 and 30,000 victims... Tired out, weakened and not provided with food, the male inmates had to start out walking on 24th and 26th April on a death march heading north-westward. On 27th and 28th April it was the turn of about 20,000 women to undergo such march. Approximately 2,000 sick women, men and children were left on the camp site..." – International Tracing Service
3. "Zwischen 1939 bis 1945 sind im KZ Ravensbrück etwa 132.000 Frauen und Kinder, 20.000 Männer und 1.000 weibliche Jugendliche des "Jugendschutzlagers Uckermark" als Häftlinge registriert worden. – Jenney Oertle © Deutsches Historisches Museum, Berlin (translation from above)

The ITS estimate speaks of 20,000 women walking and 2,000 staying behind in 1945. No explanation and no further analysis of whatever happened in the preceding six years or why 132,000 number is quoted. From what I see, the above three sources are no more reliable than others already quoted. Poeticbent talk 08:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

high school-level classes?[edit]

So, this was a concentration camp and yet the workers had time for classes? Done where? And with what materials? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 55.128.28.94 (talk) 14:57, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Only reason for force-marches?[edit]

Article reads: "With the Soviet Red Army's rapid approach in the spring of 1945, the SS leadership decided to remove as many prisoners as they could, in order to avoid leaving live witnesses behind who could testify as to what had occurred in the camp."

Is there evidence for this motive or is it just assumed to be the case? With other camps the NS regime believed it could use prisoners as leverage for negotiations (to have a separate peace in the West and keep fighting the Soviets, etc.)...if they simply wanted to eliminate live witnesses killing them would have been just as easy as force-marching them, no? Historian932 (talk) 13:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Such statements – unless sourced – are probably editor conjecture. As such, they should be removed from the article, or at very least have a {{citation needed|date=mmmm yyyy}} template placed after it. Hope that helps. Regards, GenQuest "Talk to Me" 23:11, 19 January 2017 (UTC)