Talk:Reinhold Messner

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earlier comments[edit]

"Charges have been leveled" seems a bit extreme and perhaps non-NPOV. He didn't commit any crime if he did push himself too hard and has suffered brain damage (I don't know either way) as a result. His mountaineering accomplishments cannot be any less great if such "charges" are true. Every climber has the option to push himself to extreme (yes, I'm sure most accomplished climbers have pushed themselves to such limits). Sounds to me like there's some mountaineers out there that might be just a little too jealous of his astounding accomplishments. I believe Anatoli Boukreev summitted Everest at least once w/o supplemental oxygen but was not a solo ascent. RedWolf 06:46, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

Comes from politics I'll bet, where people are always "leveling charges". It would be cool to locate a particular source for the claim - an editorial or maybe even just a press release from a campaign opponent, which would certainly put it in perspective. If there's no source, then I'd delete the claim altogether, we may just be repeating an anonymous smear attempt. If we kept brain-damaged people out of politics it would be total anarchy! :-) Stan 12:31, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

-- Goran Kropp soloed Everest without supplementary oxygen.

I've removed to here, for work that may make it suitable to the article, the whole 'graph

Possibly related to his book about the Yeti, charges have been leveled against Messner that he has perhaps pushed himself too hard in his career and suffered real brain damage from hypoxia at high altitudes. Others counter that this does not in any way detract from his accomplishments, and Messner himself has always been very much an individualist from the start. If nothing, the story of the Yeti surely gave him some air time in the media with possible effect on the sales of his books, one of which is titled after the story.

It was too vague even before the yeti stuff was added, and "possibly related" is either original research or even less acceptable vagueness than before. What is it that the sources say? -- that may help work up encyclopedic language.
--Jerzy (t) 03:36, 2005 Apr 11 (UTC)

Maybe something about his competition with Kukuczka "who would be first to reach all 14 peaks" should be added and the controversies explained? Szopen 13:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Would be nice. Do you have some reference? Gala.martin 03:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Messner and Knopp are not the only one to achieve a solo ascent to Everest without using oxygen. For instance also Alison Hargreaves (a woman) accomplished that goal (she was the second one after R.Messner), and likely many others somebody else. gala.martin (what?) 20:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

How many toes?[edit]

The article says he lost seven, but I recall that in the Herzog film he says he still has 4 (this is from memory so I might be mistaken) ... presumably he wasn't born with 11. Do we have a citable source for the number of toes lost? Stumps 05:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I was looking for references about this issue a while ago. Online, you can find several discrepancies. For instance:
  • Here they say M. lost all of his toes, even if they do not say he lost them all because of the Nanga Parbat troubles.
  • Here half a dozen (on Nanga Parbat).
  • Here they say he lost the majority of his toes, and several fingertips.

Anyway, I believe that this article by The Guardian is likely the most reliable. You can find there some words by Messner himself, where he says seven toes. The Guardian has always been quite interested and precise about Messner related stuff, so I think seven toes is likely right. Probably, he lost other toes or fingers later, years after the Nanga Parbat.

A link to Messner's toes has been added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Some Pop Band[edit]

Is there any reason to allow "Ben Folds Five" to do promotion on this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Mentioning that he was culturally referenced by their album title is hardly promotion, especially since the band disbanded years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:24, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree that it's annoying that the only reference under "pop culture" is this obscure album... Messner is obviously part of pop culture by his own accomplishments, very much more so than this obscure band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Ben Folds Five is not an obscure band. He's toured the world several times headlining with leading artists. You guys are idiots. This is way too subjective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed - I would posit that far more people know of Ben Folds/ Ben Folds Five than Mr. Messner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Probably not, but rather beside the point. Reinhold is a sports star throughout Europe. Ratagonia (talk) 07:17, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

First Solo Climb of an 8000er[edit]

That was indeed Messner's climb of Nanga Parbat in 1978. He started at Base Camp and made the whole ascent on his own. Without using bottled oxygen and without installing high camps or fixed ropes.
Hermann Buhl's first ascent of the same mountain in 1953 was organized by an expedition. Buhl's soloing started from an high camp and ended at the same high camp. Buhl's achivement is of course extraordinary but it is not considered a solo climb. --Rupert Pupkin (talk) 12:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Author of many books in German - Request for comment / advice[edit]

As most books by Reinhold are published in German [first editions] it might be worthwhile to add a list of'm to this article. However, that being said, it's quite a list and it'd almost double the size of this article. I've set up a preliminary list HERE and I'd appreciate any input or comments on this. TIA, Qwrk (talk) 12:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

    • Nice! I added him as an 'author' to the lead. Listing the books in German here seems excessive. I noted that the bibliography is of english translations - how does that look? Ratagonia (talk) 07:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Reinhold Messner (born September 17, 1944) is an Italian-born German mountaineer???[edit]

Messner is not german; he is Italian from a german language area, but that doesn't make him a german. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:19, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

We do know he's Italian but as he's a native of Southern Tyrol his mothers tongue is German. I've made a wee edit as the article clearly states; Messner is a native speaker of German and also fluent in Italian Qwrk (talk) 20:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
The Messner brothers are as much Italian as their names are: Günther & Reinhold!-- (talk) 02:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Reinhold Messner is indisputably an Italian citizen. It is not necessary for an Italian citizen to have a name that "sounds Italian" to people with narrow minds. There are French citizens with names that sound German or Czech, and British citizens with names that sound Indian or Chinese. Ethnic background and citizenship are two different things, as mature, informed people know very well. Cullen328 (talk) 03:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
He is an Italian citizen, yes. But an ethnic German, as most people in South Tirol have been for 2,000 years or so. (talk) 01:54, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

is an Italian mountaineer and explorer from South Tyrol[edit]

It would be more correct to say "Alto Adige" instead of "South Tyrol". In fact Tyrol is an old region that doesn't exist anymore;today it is called Alto Adige. It is like saying that sarkozy is a politician from Gaul or beckham a sportman from Britannia  : ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:04, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

"Südtirol" if anything. (talk) 01:57, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
    • Uh, well, no. The native tongue in the area is German, the name in German (less the umlot) is Sudtirol, which in English, the language of this wiki, is South Tirol. While part of modern Italy, the area has influences of German descent too, and is fairly autonomous from the rest of Italy. So, NO. He is an Italian mountaineer from South Tyrol. Ratagonia (talk) 18:33, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


This article states:

On the morning of 27 June, Reinhold Messner was of the view that the weather would deteriorate rapidly, and set off alone from the last high-altitude camp. Surprisingly his brother climbed after him and caught him up before the summit.

So the version of events here is that Reinhold set off alone FOLLOWED by Günther. However, the page on Günther has a different version of events:

Günther ascended Nanga Parbat alone up the Rupal face during the middle of the night, which was at the time, the highest known vertical climb in the world. Messner was followed several hours later by his brother Reinhold who was a more experienced climber. Reinhold caught up to Günther later in the morning, and Günther soon began to show sign of altitude sickness and exhaustion by trying to maintain his pace.

In this version Günther leaves first, followed by Reinhold. So which is correct? (Worbleswick (talk) 01:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC))

  • What are you talking about? Both versions that you quoted say that Reinhold left first. "Messner was followed ... by his brother Reinhold" means that Messner left first. Note that it's "was followed", as opposed to "followed". Yogi de (talk) 13:39, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Franz or Frank Jäger[edit]

The article says differently in different places. Is it Franz Jäger or Frank Jäger? Limbero (talk) 17:56, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Seven Summits[edit]

It always bothered me a little that not more is said in this article about Messner's part in the history of the Seven Summits. Well, I added a section tonight. It's just that I'm not very happy with the wording. I'm going to try to rewrite it tomorrow or the next day. In the mean time, I invite anyone who feels they can improve the section to have at it. Thanks. --RacerX11 Talk to meStalk me 03:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)