Talk:Republic of China (1912–49)

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"1949 disestablishments"[edit]

Can the ROC really be said to have been "disestablished" in 1949?--Prisencolin (talk) 19:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

The PRC was established then so yes, the Republic of China that existed up to 1949, i.e. the post-imperial state of China, was disestablished.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 21:58, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
X mark.svg No, the RoC has never been disestablished; it still existing as is since its foundation in 1912. This article is about the history of the RoC at a specific period (since its foundation until the Communist Party of China founded the PRC). In order to be disestablished, the Communist Party should be entered in war with the Kuomintang and invaded Taipei, but it has never be ocurred (The PRC is still claiming that Taiwan as a province of them, but the Communist Party has not yet taken actual sovereignty over the territories governed by the RoC/Kuomintang —Taiwan, Penghu, and other islands–, but no war or serious conflicts ocurred between the Nationalists and the Communists). The "both" Chinas claimed the disputed territories as own, but the RoC (the Kuomintang) has never been disapeared, disestablished, or abolished, even, the Kuomintang was who represented "China" until 1971, until the International community decided that "China" is represented by the Communist Party, and considering Taiwan as a provice of the PRC). --Amitie 10g (talk) 02:20, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Do you have reliable sources (one not affiliated with the CCP) that says the ROC was disestablished in 1949? Because there are quite a few that indicate the ROC is active and continues to hold Taiwan, Kinmen, Penghu, and Matsu, and continued an active conflict on the mainland into the 1960's. Kiralexis (talk) 23:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits[edit]

I have again undone the edits by, and thought it better to start a discussion here as clearly a fuller discussion is needed. There are numerous problems with that version, first being that it is not good writing. According to the first paragraph the Republic of China fell in 1949 but still survives today. Most of that paragraph is contained in one very long sentence, which despite its length does not contain a clear statement of what the topic is, which is what the first sentence should normally do: see WP:BEGIN. More importantly it does not agree with the rest of the article, and includes a source which is entirely irrelevant (a handbook on the modern Taiwan military is not a good source for the Republic of China from 1912 to 1949).--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 06:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Merger Discussion[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Outcome is clear .-- Moxy (talk) 05
05, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Request received to merge articles: Republic of China (1912–49) into Taiwan; dated: December 2016. Proposer's Rationale: ROC controlled the Mainland until 1949 and this article needs to be merged with Taiwan. Discuss here. Wrestlingring (talk) 04:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Oppose This article is about the state that ruled the mainland of China before the civil war. Taiwan is about the Island on which the Republic of China currently rules. The Taiwan article contains extensive information on the Island, its history (Including the Japanese period), its inhabitants, etc. To merge information on pre-1949 China into that article would dilute that information and probably the usefulness of that article.
If a merger between the information on Pre and Post 1949 ROC is desired I'd like to suggest it be done in a revised Republic of China article with Taiwan reduced slightly to only contain information on that Island. Kiore (talk) 08:15, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
  • oppose. Not a valid rationale to merge. This is about the state that occupied the territories of modern China and Taiwan between 1912 and 1949. Whether you consider it a part of Taiwanese history, a part of Chinese history, a combination of these, or something else, it is best served by having a separate article, in part so the competing claims and interpretations are covered in an article, but mostly as there is enough material to justify it.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 12:41, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --T*U (talk) 16:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC
  • Oppose per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --Khajidha (talk) 14:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose per JohnBlackburne's argument. Comment I agree tha the articles in the area of modern China are unusually chaotic in their relation to each other and uneven in their content, but the proposed merge does not address these issuesch (talk) 16:59, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Federal or Unitary state[edit]

This edit changed the type of state in the info box from Unitary to Federal. Neither the old value nor the new cited a source and I can't find anything in either the 1912 Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China or the 1947 Constitution of the Republic of China articles. The other obvious places to look would be the missing pages 1923 Constitution of the Republic of China and Provisional Constitution of the Political Tutelage Period(1931). Does anyone feel like providing an answer? Kiore (talk) 01:59, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

In the interim another IP editor came along and changed it to the obviously erroneous Federated state. I've changed it back to Unitary state. Kiore (talk) 06:28, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Republic of China (1912-71)?[edit]

According to the Chinese Wikipedia article, the Republic of China continued to represent China until 1971 when it lost its UN seat. However, if that's almost correct, the ROC held its UN seat even though they fled to Taiwan.The rough translation translated from Google:

The Republic of China was a republican country in East Asia, widely represented in China from 1912 to 1971, and today is often referred to as Taiwan because of its actual territorial and political factors [19] [20] [21]. At the beginning of the founding of the Republic of China to inherit the rule of the Qing Dynasty, including Xinjiang, Mongolia, Tibet, China in 1945 from Japan to receive Taiwan and other places, a total area of ​​about 11.41 million square kilometers. However, after losing most of the territorial power in 1949, the total area under the jurisdiction of the present-day Taiwan is 36,197 square kilometers, including Taiwan, Penghu, Kinmen, Mazu, Ochu, Islands, Taiping Island and other islands. The capital and the central government are located in Taipei City [22] and the largest city is Xinbei [4]. The total population is about 23.5 million [4], mainly composed of Han and Taiwanese aborigines,

Any questions? Wrestlingring (talk) 01:28, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

The articles in English wikipedia say that too. What has that got to do with this article? CMD (talk) 01:59, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
There's a problem with articles on China as a whole. There's the territory and cultural groupings that is China and Chinese and then there are the political entities that have ruled it. Before 1912, the Qing was the government of China, nobody really argues that point. Between 1912 and the late 1920s (except for couple of brief restorations) there was a republic with different factions claiming to be its legitimate government. Then there was the Chinese Civil War from late 1927 to 1949 which was the KMT and the CPC fighting to be the government of China; in the middle of that, the Japanese were grabbing chunks of China and setting up puppet governments. Before 1927 the Republic of China was a good name for mainland China. After 1949, the People's Republic of China was a good name for mainland China, but over 67 years later there is still a rump government on Taiwan for the Republic of China. Referring to the government that largely ruled the mainland until 1949 as Republic of China (1912-49) seems a good compromise. Kiore (talk) 03:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)