Talk:Republic of Ireland

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Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Q: Why isn't this article titled Ireland?
A: Many discussions have been had on this matter, and current consensus is to use Ireland to describe the island and Republic of Ireland to describe the state. By order of WP:ARBCOM, all future discussions of this article's title must take place at a special project set up to deal with this issue. See Wikipedia:IMOS for the manual of style for Ireland-related issues.
Former good article nominee Republic of Ireland was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
August 11, 2010 Good article nominee Not listed


'Name' section part 3[edit]

I have attempted to edit out the sentence "In an Irish republican context it is often referred to as "the Free State" or "the 26 Counties"" and extend the preceeding sentence to include "the Free State" or "the 26 Counties". Primarily because, in my experience, these terms for the state are not limited to an Irish republican context nor those of any particular persuasion. Also, Irish nationalists and anti-partitionists are not necessarily republicans. In addition to making the section more accurate, editing out the said would further trim the Name section. The hatnote at the top of the section gives a link for those who require or desire a more comprehensive explaination of the naming of the state. I was hoping my brief explaination in the edit summary would have sufficed and that I wouldn't have needed to have written this. But it is nice to get the views and feedback of others. AlwynJPie (talk) 19:32, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Are the 26 counties and the free state common names outside republican circles nowadays?[edit]

Material currently in the article is supported by a reliable source. No reliable sources have been provided to the contrary. Hence, the material should stay in the article, unmodified, until reliable secondary sources disproving or disputing the material are provided. DrKiernan (talk) 09:50, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another editor is saying

"As well as "Ireland", "Éire" or "the Republic of Ireland", the state is also referred to as "the Republic", "Southern Ireland", "the South", "the Free State" and "the 26 Counties"

instead of

"As well as "Ireland", "Éire" or "the Republic of Ireland", the state is also referred to as "the Republic", "Southern Ireland" or "the South".[20] In an Irish republican context it is often referred to as "the Free State" or "the 26 Counties".[21]"

Has 'the free state' or 'the 26 counties' been used to any extent by anyone outside of republican circles for Ireland in the last thirty years or so? Sinn Fein and republican news certainly seems to me to be the only real users and that's what the article about names of the Irish state says Dmcq (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Dmcq. Sorry, I hadn't realised you had started this section as unfortunately I started up one as well entitled "Name section part 3" on the same topic! To answer your question, in my personal experience, I have often heard people referring to the area of the state as the "26 counties" and "the Free State" just as another way of distinguishing the state from the island but I don't think for any political bias. AlwynJPie (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
You have often heard people referring to it as the free state or the 26 counties? I see from the latest talk page you just said a few days ago that "Nine of of ten letters to my home have Middlesex in the address" so I am rather surprised. Anyway let's see what anyone else says. Dmcq (talk) 21:46, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
By the way new sections go at the bottom of the talk page. If you click the tab 'new section' it will start up a new discussion at the end of the talk page. Dmcq (talk) 22:12, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Dmcq for that information. I put it there because it was to do with the Name section. My statement "Nine of of ten letters to my home have Middlesex in the address" was true. I live in Harrow. Looking through my post now it is less than that I think that maybe because more businesses are now using postcode search engines to generate addresses which omit Middlesex (or other county names) from addresses. Getting back to the topic, as I say, in my own experience I did not see those that used the terms "Free State" or "the 26 counties" as being particularly republican. AlwynJPie (talk) 03:06, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
I think it is extremely unlikely that you have come across people in Middlesex referring to 'the Free State' and 'The 26 counties' so my guess is you referring to some things on the web you've seen. From the way you go on and on about names here I would guess you've been mainly looking at sites with some political axe to grind about the legitimacy of the state rather than just straightforwardly referring to the state, and that's what the text in the article says. Dmcq (talk) 08:08, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Can't remember last time I've time I've seen either used outside of a republican context. Mabuska (talk) 12:49, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
@Alwyn, by pure chance I lived and worked in Harrow for years and often stopped off in some of the Irish bars down the Northolt Road and in bars like the Shawl and so on, I rarely recall people speaking about the "26 counties" or "The Free State." It was usually "back home", "Ireland" or just the town they were from. 26 counties or the Free State would have sounded like "Shinnerspeak." Ultimately, though, my personal anecdotes are as meaningless as yours in the grand scale of things, since Wikipedia goes on the basis of reliable sources. Valenciano (talk) 21:09, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Okay sorry AlwynJPie, I can see how it might happen if you go to somewhere like that. It sounds like some of the clientele were stuck a bit in the past. Not as bad as people in the US taking about Britain's part in the famine I guess. Dmcq (talk) 22:12, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

I reverted a similar edit a month ago, which led to this discussion on my talk page. My position is still the same: this section has only become stable after a lot of heated discussion, so we have to be able to say that it is 100% verifiable. Anecdotal evidence just isn't enough. At any rate, if a significant number of non-republican people used these descriptions, it would have found its way into print or onto the web somewhere. It may well be that there are a couple of people in County Antrim or wherever that use them, but that is not enough to be worthy of inclusion in an encyclopaedia article. Scolaire (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Agree with Scolaire, Mabuska and DMCQ - not used outside of a republican context often enough to be worthy of inclusion. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 17:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
…."the Republic of Ireland", "the Republic", "Southern Ireland", "the South", "the Free State" and "the 26 Counties": The usage of these terms are not confined to any specific group. I’ve heard all these terms used colloquially to distinguish the state from the island by a wide range of people of various points of view. AlwynJPie (talk) 00:00, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Well perhaps you have a much wider range of experience than the rest of us then. I tried out the Google ngram search and the irish free state and the 26 counties were vanishingly small compared to Ireland and doing a Google search certainly seemed to back up they were republican related. I found one entry on the 26 counties about 26 counties 6 to go about the same-sex marriage referendum and I though perhaps I'm wrong - but no it was in a republican newsletter. Dmcq (talk) 00:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
The terms "the Free State" or "the 26 counties" are often used informally to distinguish the state from the island, not when talking about Ireland in general. Yes, many people, including myself, are often ignorant when it comes to official names of places. The “free” merely means the part of Ireland that is “free”, or independent, of the United Kingdom. The 26 counties are the counties contained in the free area. Btw Britian had to play a part in the Great Famine. It actually took place in Britain as all of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom at that time. AlwynJPie (talk) 07:55, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Ireland"[edit]

The naming of the article at Ireland and the usage and topic of the pagename "Ireland" are up for discussion, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland_Collaboration#Move "Ireland" to "Ireland (island)" or similar (June 2015) -- 70.51.203.69 (talk) 05:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

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External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 external links on Republic of Ireland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 01:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)