Talk:Resurrection of Jesus

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Untitled[edit]

This article has been merged from Resurrection of Jesus, Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus and Death of Jesus in September 2006, those pages now redirect here.

I Can't Make Sense of the Counting[edit]

The third day after Good Friday is the following Monday, unless you count both days, Friday and Sunday. The same goes with the ascension. If Jesus first appeared on Easter Sunday, then forty days later (i.e after Easter Sunday) would be a Friday - unless of course, one counts both Easter Sunday and the Ascension of Jesus. The wording "...celebrated on the 40th day of Easter (always a Thursday)" doesn't make sense either, unless Easter starts on a Saturday. Could anyone explain? All the best 85.220.22.139 (talk) 17:25, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I seem to recall Sundays are not counted.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
Hebrew works a bit differently from English. Past tense and present tense were sort of mashed together, as I recall, resulting in a worldview were if a day wasn't finished yet, you'd count that day as well. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday thus becomes three days. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:15, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
(After edit conflict) I looked at Lent and can't find what I said--except when the number of days of Lent is calculated for Catholics.Since they end Lent on Maundy Thursday, the article says their Lent is thirty-eight days, with Sundays not included. But nowhere in that article does it say where the forty days comes from. It simply says that if you start with Ash Wednesday and end with Easter, that is forty days. Which it isn't.
If you want to get really confused, I once heard a radio preacher say Jesus rose on Saturday and, therefore, we should be worshipping on Saturday. This man preached the message that nearly every church was wrong (worshipping on Sunday) on Sunday after Sunday (at least that's when he was in the radio studio, or when he was broadcast; I once heard him say he was being told his time was up so that was it for today). Which doesn't work because the Sabbath in the Bible starts at sunset. So it's already the next day, what we call Sunday, even if that is true.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:10, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I also used to be confused by this. But my understanding is that the NT usually talks about Jesus being raised "on the third day" and only rarely "after three days". So if he died on Friday, the "first day", Saturday is the second day and Sunday is the third day. I'll have to check the original Greek... As for the Ascension, 40 days after Easter Sunday is a Thursday, presumably based on the reference in Acts where it says "after his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God." So AFAICS the arithmetic works. HTH. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Historicity and NPOV[edit]

This article seems to be devoted not only to describing the belief in the resurrection, but to arguing for the resurrection as an actual event. For the record, the majority view among scholars of the field is that there is no factual reason to believe the resurrection occurred, and several leading scholars have made it quite clear they do not believe in it, and even scholars who believe in it accept that it's a matter of belief, not anything that can be factually proven. Reading the section on the historicity of the resurrection, there is no mention of this. Through a quite extreme use of WP:CHERRY, the section manages to give the reader the image that most scholars accept the resurrection as something that happened. This is quite misleading, and violates WP:POV.Jeppiz (talk) 22:10, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

There are also leading scholars who argue for the resurrection as an event. So opinion is divided; and neither side can "prove" their position because history, unlike science is not repeatable. In fact those arguing against the event, have genuine difficulties because there is no real "counter-evidence" to draw on, and so there are lots of theories, but no consensus. Leaving that aside, the article is clearly prefaced "The resurrection of Jesus is the Christian religious belief that..." which makes it clear from the outset that it is a belief and then goes on to explain what that belief is. Later sections are entitled "New Testament events" and "Christian tradition"; again making it clear what the text is describing. That seems not unreasonable. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:49, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Having re-read the section being questioned; it does not appear POV at all. The first paragraph simply summarises what early Christians said and wrote (that's straight history). The second describes Vermes' 8 theories about the resurrection from total denial to absolute belief. The third also discusses different scholarly views finishing with a skeptical quotation. The fourth tries to summarise (not very comprehensively) what the biblical scholarship consensus is. The whole section is liberally sprinkled with references to back it up and mentions views right across the spectrum. I therefore propose to remove the hatnote and suggest we discuss any specific issues here about how to improve the article. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:40, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
The article is in line with NPOV! I suggest we remove the tag...--Jaaron95 (talk) 18:08, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, certainly. I was the one who placed the tag last year, but the article now satisfies NPOV and I have removed the tag. Thanks for reminding me.Jeppiz (talk) 20:52, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

There are also leading scholars who argue for the resurrection as an event.

Who just happen by pure chance to also be deeply religious Christians. And more importantly, they do not publish their views in peer reviewed high quality historical journals. Scholarship, and history specifically are inherently secular activities, and supernatural magical events have no place in them. The resurrection, from a historical stance remains unproven. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 17:02, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Harizotoh9, that's the reason I think the first line of the article adds three words Christian religious belief instead of Resurrection of Jesus is the event of Christ rising from dead! I think it perfectly meets WP:NPOV. As you said that this event 'cannot be proven', I say, it 'cannot be unproven'! Even it cannot be proven, as 7 billion of the world's population believe in the resurrection, and believe it as fact, due respect must be given to their view. As to meet NPOV, other religious views are mention at the end of the article! Regards --†ããrøn95® 17:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE additions[edit]

An IP keep adding text and erroneous links. While the text is probably accurate, how is it WP:DUE here to give a background of Carrier's different hobbies (activist, blogger etc.). This is the article about the (alleged) resurrection of Jesus, not an article about Carrier. Carrier is only one of thousands people with an opinion on the subject (and a fringe opinion at that). Why would Carrier's different hobbies or biography be due here? Jeppiz (talk) 21:46, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ehrman[edit]

Ehrman I think changed his view. He no longer believes in the empty tomb theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:203:4101:F770:F5CE:E1CD:E8B9:D968 (talk) 07:11, 20 March 2016 (UTC)