Talk:Richard Ramirez

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Higgins[edit]

Is this the same Pattie Elaine Higgins, described under victims? http://articles.latimes.com/1985-08-25/local/me-24940_1_miss-higgins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.33.43.9 (talk) 00:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Question[edit]

  • Is there a legitimate reason why this page is not here anymore? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.75.45.225 (talk) 00:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

His preference in music?[edit]

Is this really important? BrianAlex (talk) 14:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

For a person that has taken the lives of others, who cares what he listens to, hopefully, he has NOTHING to listen to and by now cannot remember who or what he liked before he was imprisoned. This is not the WM3 case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.135.148 (talk) 04:12, 18 September 2011 (UTC) As for the question, I think yeah his musical tastes are important, because they led to some of the 90's anti-heavy metal nonsense. 124.168.181.224 (talk) 04:31, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

No it is not important and has no purpose being posted in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.30.125 (talk) 20:54, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Why? Give a good reason. 2602:306:BC83:DC10:802:E890:B790:C17D (talk) 19:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia is an Encylopediea and not a place of worship for serial killers, look at the pages of Mahatma Ghandi, Mother Theresa or Martin Luther King and you wont find much if any about their tasted in food or music.84.112.106.126 (talk) 20:09, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

In Ramirez' biography, written by Phillip Carlo, Carlo seems to put blame on the music Ramirez was listening to. For him heavy metal had an influence on Ramirez' way of thinking and pumped up his aggression. Carlo wrote about it quiet often in his book. It might not be that important to the reader and to be honest, it is usually a lot of BS, but it is part of the whole story. At least for the biographer. And I hate to say it, but in this case the music/lyrics had an influence on the killer, considering that he was what you might call "criminally insane". It happens, one in a 100.000 times.--87.184.157.77 (talk) 09:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
If memory serves (I'll double-check when I get home), Carlo mentions the music (usually AC/DC), but never draws any cause/effect conclusions. Your conclusion that "the music had an influence on the killer" is original research, and therefore can't be used here. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 19:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Doublechecked, and the memory—for once—was accurate. Also reviewed medical literature on this subject, and the consensus remains that music is a mirror of listeners' lives, rather than a causative factor in their behavior. The worst that anyone actually qualified to give an opinion has said is that music is perceived as harmful only when applied to preexisting states of negative arousal. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 21:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

"The alternative juror who replaced Singletary was too frightened to return to her home."[edit]

This makes no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.250.248 (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

What don't you understand? It's saying that the alternative juror was too frieghted to leave the hotel to go home because the woman she was replacing was shot and killed and at that time, they suspected that Ramirez may have organized it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.30.125 (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed[edit]

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/justice_7.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 15:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for finding and fixing that.   Will Beback  talk  20:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Quite a shame, really. :/ It was an IP who found it, though; I just followed through with listing it for him or her. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Satanic influences[edit]

Hi there, as this article was in need of reference citations to verify the information within it, I have inserted several. (I will insert more as I have time in the near future). In reading articles etc to reference the information in the article, I noticed that virtually all the articles I read made reference to Ramirez's satanic beliefs. However, in this wiki article there is very little reference to this aspect of his life. As these beliefs seemed to be a pivotal part of his life and justification for committing the 'night-stalker' crimes, it seems odd that this is not really addressed in the wiki article. What do other contributors think about creating a new section which explores his relationship with satanism?Jihadcola (talk) 13:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)Jihadcola

There are references to Richard Ramirez in the wikipedia articles about Anton Lavey and his "church of satan" organization in SanFrancisco but apparently the references don't go both ways. Denial of the satanism connection has also been a recurring situation in some major media treatment overall in relation to whether or not serial killers of the 1970s and 1980s had connections to satanism when it appeared several were going out of their way to proclaim it while Lavey and his group were trying to publicly duck legal liabilities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.222.193 (talk) 02:36, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Kermit the Frog[edit]

I really don't think he is the voice of Kermit the Frog. I guess someone started April Fool's early. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.25.103.33 (talk) 19:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Citation needed: nothing in the referred source mention's Ramirez' "face" being splattered with blood[edit]

Hello. I noticed that the text as stands claims that when Richard's cousin Mike murdered his wife, Richard was present and "her blood splattered on Ramirez's FACE." However, if you check the source, it never mentions the word "face." It states, "Author Philip Carlo, speaking on CNBC's Rivera Live, revealed that Ramirez was spattered with the woman's blood." Obviously this could also mean that Ramirez' shirt, his hand, sneakers, or other areas could have blood on them while "his face" did not. Please find a source that states "his face was splattered in blood" or simply revise the text to claim, as per the source, "...Ramirez was splattered with her bloood." Thanks114.158.149.78 (talk) 03:31, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Cause of death[edit]

Typical when a subject has recently died, we have two seemingly conflicting "causes of death". Many sources say he died of "natural causes" (at the age of 53), while others indicate "liver failure".[1][2] Seeing as he was an IV drug user (and other reports say he had Hepatitis C): my money's on liver failure. Time will tell. Please bear in mind that the C.O.D. is not official yet, and reports conflict. Doc talk 01:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

inasmuch as liver failure ~is~ fundamentally a natural cause, i see no conflict here. --emerson7 01:48, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Liver failure is far more specific a cause of death, much like "heart failure", and thetefore preferable as his C.O.D. Just my opinion. Doc talk 01:52, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
hate to belabour the point, but liver failure is ~very very general as a number of ailments could lead to it. hepatitis, sclerosis, cancer...just to name a few. at any rate, we do have proper and reliable....sourcing for it and i don't see a problem with noting it in the article until and unless something more specific is reported. --emerson7 02:02, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Questionable information regarding early life and head injuries[edit]

The head injuries were probably alleged to be "serious" by the defense, desperately seeking to find some exculpating issues. Experts know how to distinguish trivial concussions from those likely to be life-changing. We don't know how serious these injuries were. The only citation for "serious head injuries" in childhood is "true crime stories," a Wordpress blog, a secondary source, that provides no citations of its own. In other words, most of the information about his early life given in this article have the truth value of an urban legend until better sources can be found..

Much of the information in this article about Ramirez's early life is copy-and-paste from the True Crime Stories blog. Wikipedia readers deserve better.

Information given under oath at Ramirez's trial is probably available in the trial transcript, but the transcript is probably not available online. There are probably more reliable sources available, if anybody wants to hunt for them. If the trial transcript can be found, the defense's exculpating evidence was probably questioned by the prosecution. Ideally, the bigger picture would be considered.

Citations from Tru-TV are also embarrassing. This is not a reliable and objective information source.

Ramirez very likely had a severe mental disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or schizoaffective disorder, possibly organic brain syndrome, and possibly antisocial personality disorder. Evidence was probably presented at trial. This information should be included in the article.108.219.39.17 (talk) 17:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The article is in dire need of improvement (a major overhaul) and will be worked on. Please feel free to make any constructive improvements of your own. Doc talk 23:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Mental disorder(s)[edit]

What was he diagnosed with: ASPD? schizophrenia? Jim Michael (talk) 12:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Public Reaction[edit]

I'm unsure if this is appropriate, but I happened to be staying with friends in Long Beach, California shortly before Ramirez was captured. I went to a nearby home improvement center and discovered that it was completely sold out of the three-inch bolts that are frequently used to "pin" double-hung wooden windows, making them very difficult to pry open. I had to adapt another type of bolt for the windows of my friends' house. Checkers at the home improvement center told me that they had never sold so many deadbolts and other security hardware within recent memory.

After Ramirez was captured, my friends and I spent the day at Disneyland and didn't return until well after dark. When we arrived back at their house, we found every light blazing. It turned out that their roommate heard, or thought he heard someone outside a bedroom window, and the entire neighborhood was flooded with police within minutes of him reporting it. This may have been due to the fact that authorities may not have yet been certain that Ramirez always acted alone, it might have been a "copycat" incident, it may have just been a demonstration of how on edge everyone was, or possibly a combination of all three. RogerInPDX (talk) 16:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Miscellany[edit]

"The trial of Richard Ramirez was one of the most difficult and longest criminal trials in American history, taking over four years to finalize." - this obviously conflicts w/ the dates immediately prior as to jury selection beginning, guilty verdict, and penalty phase date. It comes from an 'About.com' article on the subject - which was masquerading in the links as a NYT article. I've deleted it. Irish Melkite (talk) 23:56, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Photograph for infobox[edit]

I would like to suggest that the 1984 mug shot of Ramirez be swapped with the image currently in the infobox because it is by far the most recognizable image of the subject, the subject is now deceased, and the images would also then be in chronological order. What are others' thoughts?Hoops gza (talk) 02:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Comment - As the '84 mug is not yet technically public domain, this move would be opposed procedurally through WP:NFCC. We must get this article beyond the current "Start" class rating. We need to expand this article, adding lots of referenced info about: the detectives who hunted him and the physical evidence, the section on his capture, his lengthy trial (one of the most expensive in that state's history), and much more. Any help raising this article above start-class would be greatly appreciated. Doc talk 03:50, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Different Birthdates[edit]

I did some research and both February 28 and February 29 1960 give equal results as Ramirez's date of birth. Not only that but both dates of birth are found in numerous reliable sources (including this [3]] NYTimes article written a day after his death showing his DOB as Feb 28. Here's where it gets even stranger. I searched the Texas Birth Database at Family Tree Legends and two results come up for Ricardo Ramirez (his birth name) one for Feb 28, 1960 and another for Feb 27, 1960. So now we have a possible third birth date, huh?? Can someone who has more knowledge in this area help to find out what Ramirez's actual date of birth is because right now it should at least say Feb 29 OR 28 in the article? Thanks. Emivam (talk) 04:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll help look into this. If reliable sources are equally divided on the day of his birth, your solution is the right way to go. I know that Carlo has his birthday as the 29th - it's also worth noting that Feb. 29th is a leap year day that only occurs once every four years. If he was born on a leap year, there should be some notes on that out there. Keep digging. Doc talk 01:00, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Satanist[edit]

ramirez was a devil worshipper, not a satanist. i am not a satanist myself, but i know that satanism is essentially a form of humanitarianism, NOT worshipping satan. the fact that he called himself a satanist is about as relevant as someone calling themself a vegeterian, while eating seafood. just as those people are pesciterians, no matter what they say, ramirez is a devil worshipper, no matter what he says --188.110.121.169 (talk) 08:38, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Complete and utter rubbish. Consult a dictionary, or any good solid specialist source. Crackpot personal views have no place on the Wiki TP's, anon. HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:31, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

You left out something[edit]

My mom's cousin was the woman who almost got carjacked by Richard Ramirez and her husband came outside and began chasing him THEN, the neighbors came out and also began chasing and beating him until police arrived Artlover700 (talk) 21:21, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

LA Magazine article[edit]

There's a new article from LA Magazine, dated May 15, 2017, about James Romero's role, if anyone wants to flesh that part out a bit more: http://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/13-year-old-boy-brought-down-notorious-serial-killer-richard-ramirez-night-stalker/ Specifically, the sequence of events is slightly different than what we have here. Ramirez went to the Romeros' home first, but left without breaking in (James was awake and woke up his parents), then he drove to the home of Cairns and Erickson. howcheng {chat} 23:14, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

"love object"[edit]

That is a terrible section title. I would suggest it be changed to nearly anything else, maybe "romantic relationship" or something less lurid. 104.254.230.90 (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Please make the above suggested change to section title. Thanks. 104.254.230.90 (talk) 21:27, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Already done - FlightTime (open channel) 21:45, 14 September 2017 (UTC)