Talk:Risk (game)

Dice probabilities - history repeats itself

At the time of the peer review for GA in 2007, at least two of the reviewers cited the dice probabilities section as WP:GAMETRIVIA. At that time, the probabilities table was a small (3x5 entry) single table. It was subsequently removed in conjunction with the review. The article was delisted in 2008, though the reason wasn't the re-appearance of the dice table. The problem cited (ref'ing, as usual), still remains - there are 45 paragraphs without terminating citations. In addition, if I were doing the review, the dice table would need to be axed, again. It would be acceptable and useful to give a general textual description of when it's favorable to attack, or better to sit, or how to decide among several attack possibilities which has the best odds. I think any kind of table is out. I'm considering being bold and axing the dice table as it stands. Unless editors understand the GA requirements cited in the first review, this article isn't going anywhere. I.e. if I delete the dice table and get reverted, there's clearly a misunderstanding. Sbalfour (talk) 20:55, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to do two things coincident with deleting the dice probabilities tables: 1)summarize the dice probabilities; 2)specifically note the references where this information can be found, so the encyclopedia becomes a secondary source, not a primary one, for this type of detailed info. Sbalfour (talk) 17:29, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

History section missing info

The name of the original French company is missing. There is no history of the trademark: who owned it, who licensed it. The game pieces and game art have changed (some of this is in the Equipment and Design section, should be moved to History). The game subtitle has changed at least three times, not two. I think some of the rules have changed from the early versions regarding allocation of territories to players and placing of armies on territories during set up. Also, some rules were different between European and U.S. versions, and some of the themed versions got different rules. The box art has changed too many times to track, but the packaging (wooden box at least one version) changes should be noted. There's a Franklin Mint Risk set as of 2016, may be worth noting (metal pieces?). No mention of any history of sponsored competition, or champions of any kind. When were computer, video game and mobile apps introduced? Elaboration here would certainly be required for FA, possibly for GA. Sbalfour (talk) 20:37, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Alliances section importance

Risk is a game of diplomacy, as stated first in the intro's opening sentence. It is a poor strategy, probably a losing one, to always play as a solo competitor in a multi-handed game. It's an equally poor strategy to always seek alliances. Alliances may be either tactical, along one border or one section of the board while the situation lasts, or strategic, forming a stronger union for a longer term purpose, i.e. eliminating another strong player, or conquering a highly fortified section of the board. Good play means forming alliances when it's beneficial, and dissolving them when it's not. Defining those circumstances is the meaningful part of strategy. Dice tables is thinking in the small. Risk is a microcosm of the real world, and the game manual is John von Neumann's Theory of Games and Economic Behavior. Translating that into the game is where we ought to be, not computing dice tables. A java applet to simulate any sequence of dice rolls can be written in about 12 lines, and give the result of battle instantly instead of having to roll all those dice. But reading the book, and creating an exposition of a Risk strategy based on diplomacy, ah... that takes keen scholarship. As far as I can tell, it's never been done. There's a wide gulf between what's in the Alliances section now, and the content of the book. Let's expand that, if anything.

I should say, that a Strategy section is not essential for GA or FA, and IMHO, not needed in the article at all. To the extent that the strategy of a game is a meaningful part of the description of the game of interest to those wanting to buy it or play it, it should be detailed in the Description or Gameplay section. If the detail is of interest only to a competitive gamer, it should not be in a concise scholarly article. Sbalfour (talk) 23:13, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Setup, Player turn and Rule variations sections

We have three detailed top-level sections devoted to the rules (and part of a fourth section, Strategy, is also taken from the rule book). Ordinarily, these would be subsections (or just paragraphs) in a Gameplay or Rules section. Someone has transliterated a rule book (not specified from which edition of the game) into the encyclopedia complete with all minutiae of card counts, token values, army bonuses, etc. However, I have inspected 8 versions of the game, and there are at least 5 different rule sets, minutely different, but different nonetheless. Which are the "official" rules of the game? The rules section isn't supposed to be a paraphrased rule book from the box; it's supposed to be a description of the game or gameplay derived from applying the rules to the equipment: what's significant or interesting about the game, and distinguishes it from other possibly similar games. The character of the game doesn't change depending on ruleset, and that's what we capture for a scholarly article on the game.

Please note that the Style guide for Wikipedia:WikiProject Board and table games#Style guide explicitly says: "...For this reason, please do not include: The complete rules of the game." It also explicitly says: "detailed rules violate WP:GAMEGUIDE".

I think I'm going to be bold, and redraft and combine the Setup, Player turn and Rule variations sections into one narrative style Gameplay section that's free of the minutiae of counts, dice, card matching, etc and is compatible with any of the standard edition rulesets. What we lose in precision, we gain in descriptive power. Sbalfour (talk) 01:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Suggestions for expanding the article

1. Not adding to Gameplay or Strategy sections

2. History is anemic; the game is issued and played in many foreign countries, which ones, and how did it get there?

3. Is there a governing body that sanctions competitions and issues titles? Where is it headquartered? What are the titles and qualifications for them? Who holds or has held them?

4. What competitions are there (Mind Olympics?), how often are they held, where?

5. What are the SIGNIFICANT differences between the themed variants? Not details here, but fundamental character of the games. Why would you want one of these instead of the standard version?

6. Is the Franklin mint version interesting?

7. Are the any notable Risk players (maybe chess grandmasters who play risk, professors, PHD game scholars, TV personalities, ?)

8. If it's one of the most popular board games in history, what's the marketing/sales data show?

It's going to take some digging from here, not just transliterating a game manual or copying elements from a book on playing the game. Sbalfour (talk) 03:13, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

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