Talk:Road verge

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North America only?[edit]

Is this usage (and the rules re maintenance) Nth America only? Is this just the same as a nature strip? --GPoss 10:17, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Correct definition?[edit]

I had never heard this term before. I think these may also be called curb plantings. In either case, they are not always public. The ones on my street are owned as a part of the properity on which the house sits.

This name and page might be considered for a move since the strips may contain mulch, and not grass or shrubs instead of grass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vegaswikian (talkcontribs) .

The Devils Strip

Term used primarily in Akron, Ohio. Use: local term for the "street lawn" or "tree lawn". This is the area between the sidewalk and the street. The city may plant trees, grass, or even dig it up or modify this area without consulting the owner. Hence they are the devil. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AkronA (talkcontribs) .

The term "Tree lawn" is valid and should remain its own page. I too live in Northeast Ohio (near Akron) and do not find the term strange. --DangApricot 21:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe the term "tree lawn" is original to Cleveland, "The Forest City." Robert K S 03:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I grew up with the term 'tree lawn', and can vouch that in both Ohio and Michigan, the city owns the land rather than the owner. It's a relevant article in U.S. politics right now because of the many state elections coming in the November 2006 elections with eminent domain restrictions on the ballot. jp2 05:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I am from Akron, OH and the story has it that a property owner in neighboring Barberton was being sued by the city for not upkeeping this stretch of land between the street and sidewalk. After many arguments, the judge said "If the city isn't going to take care of it and the property owner isn't going to take care of it, then maybe the devil ought to do it." Thus the term Devil's Strip was born. I knew that all my life (I'm 31) and just heard "tree lawn" just a few years back.

Tree lawn is a strange term for me; I am from Alberta, Canada, where we call this the boulevard. However, "boulevard" better describes a broad avenue as per its article, so leaving this kind of boulevard here at tree lawn makes sense to me.--Jrsnbarn 14:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The article at present seems very US-centric. In the UK I've never come across the term "tree lawn", the strip of land being referred to as a "grass verge" or simply "verge". Usually both the strip and the pavement (US: sidewalk) are owned and maintained by the local council (or sometimes the Highways Agency for major roads) but sometimes both or either are in private ownership. Thryduulf 12:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

If not Tree Lawn, what should the page be titled? Strip of Grass Between the Sidewalk and the Street? Whatever term is chosen is going to be something-centric because there is no "correct" term for it. It's all coloquial. I think it's fine as long as all known terms are included with their place of common use. 68.255.81.245 (talk) 03:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)Alex in Michigan

Im also from Akron and heard Devilstrip in contrast to other regular terms, i had no idea it was anything but a devilstrip til last year.--Threeblur0 (talk) 22:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


Another Clevelander- yeah its pretty much just used there, and mostly only people from there use it. I've met people who lived in Northeast Ohio and they knew, but noone else did. -- Carol (no username) 01 Oct 2007

Tag[edit]

The reason for the tag is i am about to try to write an article about roadsides/roadverges in australia - and the predominately us centric nature of this article could be solved - either qualify the article as a US based articel - or try to see other continents and cultures inthe article - the main see also that i have put in should help either way - cheers SatuSuro 12:29, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Most common term?[edit]

I have lived in several regions of the US and have heard this called a "parkway" most commonly. I have never see the term "tree lawn" before. Perhaps it is the technical term used by city engineers to avoid confusion with the other uses of parkway. Google search will not be helpful here, because "parkway" will often refer to major devided highways. In some cities it is called the "boulevard' which is again used to refer to major city streets as well. A dictionary of regional English (or US English) is badly needed as a reference. Edison (talk) 20:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

i'm from cleveland and have always known it to be a treelawn. never gave the matter any thought until my professor showed us a book review that mentioned it. turns out it's pretty local to cleveland. if parkway is the more common term then use that (even though it doesn't make any sense. but i guess none of them do, so it doesn't really make a difference.) - Lambajan 19:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

My wife (mid 60s) was born in Massachusetts and only recalls hearing the term "tree lawn" used and has never heard "tree belt." --Algotruneman (talk) 16:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

English usage[edit]

In England this would most commonly be called a (grass) verge. They're not too common, mostly in newer more 'planned' towns, and where houses are on major roads. 131.111.245.195 (talk) 14:20, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Extension?[edit]

I grew up in Michigan, and my family called this the "extension." I'm not able to find any references for this use, but if anyone else can find one then perhaps it could be added. Maybe it was just my weird family. I know that the Lansing (Michigan) Municipal Code refers to it as the parkway, though oddly enough I am not sure I've ever actually heard anyone say that. This may be because it just doesn't come up in conversation much. Bunnyhugger (talk) 20:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I've lived in the Detroit suburbs all my life and everyone I know here calls it a tree lawn. Not just an Ohio thing. 76.112.204.43 (talk) 04:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I grew up in an area that didn't have sidewalks (a township), so it was a term that was never used. When it actually came up, I usually heard it described ("the strip between the sidewalk and road") or defined as the "easement". Here in Kent, Ohio, which is near both Cleveland and Akron, the city's newsletter refers to it as the "tree lawn" in the most recent issue. I have never heard the other terms (even Devil Strip despite being 14 miles from Akron), though like I said, having an actual "term" to refer to it as was pretty rare. It doesn't sound like we're going to find much of a consensus on what to title the article, so we need to do what we can to make it less US-centric even if a US term is used as the title. In the end, all the terms are describing the same thing. --JonRidinger (talk) 05:43, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

New Zealand[edit]

We use verge in NZ or grass verge. Though generally speaking if you were going to talk about it casually, as in asking your partner if they had mowed it, then you would just say "did you do the bit out by the street" :). One thing that's not covered in this article, in NZ at least (and Aus come to think of it from having been there), the verge can be either between the road and the footpath or between the property and the footpath in front of the front fence (with the footpath and the road next to each other). Or in some more out lying or rural areas there is no footpath and there's only the verge between the property and the road. The article as it stands only presents the possibility of them being between the road and the footpath. Also they don't all have trees on them, even as presented in this article, so tree lawn is an odd name and would seemingly be an inacurate one in the majority of cases.Number36 (talk) 03:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, just saw the term 'Berm' used in this Facebook thread of a NZ based current affairs show here, obviously not usable as a reference of course, but suggests that the term is used in some places here as well as verge if someone can find an appropriate reference. Unless it's just the person who posted the update and others using it are following their lead.Number36 (talk) 00:23, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


tree lawn.. lol. Reminds me of Moe on the Simpsons calling a garage a "car hole" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.116.158 (talk) 04:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed move[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was

07:14, 26 October 2011 PeterEastern moved page Tree lawn to Road verge (Agreed to be a more suitable term after discussion on talk page)


I am proposing a move to a more appropriate title, personally I suggest the term 'verge' which is the standard term in the UK and evidently also in Australia and seems to be the most widely used term. I am recommending this move because there has been long dissatisfaction with the current title on this talk page and more recently on talk:carriageway. The term 'tree lawn' seems to only used by people from the mid west of the USA.[1] PeterEastern (talk) 18:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I would agree with this move, or perhaps better; 'Grass verge' or 'Road Verge' to differentiate it from other uses of the word. I'd also suggest a merge with the article Long acre (road verge), long acre is not a term I've heard before either.Number36 (talk) 21:40, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree with both of your proposals. Road verge is probably better than grass verge given that a verge sometimes consists of bushes, trees or other planting rather than grass. I also agree about merging in Long acre, but suggest we leave that discussion until we have completed this move. Shall we leave this banner up for another 48 hours and then make the move as long as there are no objections which need more time to bottom out? PeterEastern (talk) 11:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
That seems reasonable to me and I'd agree with Road Verge being the better term for the reasons you raise. I also just noticed Verge itself is a disambiguation page with 'Road verge' red linked, and a link to this article in the note next to it, as this move will mean it'll no longer be a red link, the link via 'Tree Lawn' should be removed as unnecessary since it'll be a redirect to the same page. Number36 (talk) 21:00, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I have completed the move. I will now sort the double indirects to this article (of which there are only a few). PeterEastern (talk) 07:20, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Don't mind the move to Road verge, but American readers aren't going to know what a "verge" is in the photo captions. I plan to change the terminology cited in each to that used by the images' original posters. Also, according to Wiktionary (which is admittedly non-authoritative) and to Webster's New World Dictionary, "tree lawn" is the standard Americanism, and all other terms, also valid, point to the synonymy at "tree lawn". As an aside, much like "RP" is the "standard" for English pronunciation and usage in Britain, "flat, homogenized" Midwestern US speech in the standard in the USA. To this day, broadcasters with a "regional" accent still "unlearn" their native speech patterns in favor of "General American". --Chaswmsday (talk) 12:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the adjustments. Possibly it was a stupid idea to try a produce a single online encyclopedia covering British and North American terms in the first place ;) Another point... having done the move I wondered it if would be more accurate to have a title of 'verge (road)' instead of 'road verge' given that no one calls it a 'road verge' (be they in the USA or UK or elsewhere) as far as I am aware. PeterEastern (talk) 21:10, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I know you were just joking from the wink, but the terms really do refer to the same thing, and redirects could be created for the most common terms. Until recently (and coincidentally not related to these articles), I didn't even know the name for them and just used a circumlocution as mentioned here. The term that gets me is "boulevard". It sounds odd for that to be a synonym for "verge". I, however, confusingly use "boulevard" both to describe the street/road, and for the center island. If no one says "road verge", I think you're likely correct about moving/renaming the article again... :( --Chaswmsday (talk) 11:46, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

No common, universal term for this area[edit]

Wow. So many terms for this, and until reading this article, I was not really familiar with any of them, although I have long been aware of the concept. I've just called it "the right-of-way", "right-of-way" being shorthand for "the part of the front yard that the city owns." Of course, technically, the right-of-way does also include the street itself. In practical terms, the city plants and removes trees, but you still mow the grass, and the city will fine you if you don't. You're responsible for sidewalk maintenance, but the city will take care of it for you if you pay them. Wbm1058 (talk) 11:00, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Picture of Oak Park parkway[edit]

The caption says this is a picture of a "boulevard" in Oak Park, IL. This is ironic since Oak Park residents call that a "parkway." Should be changed to reflect the usage in the location depicted? Highnumber (talk) 19:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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