Talk:Democratic Federation of Northern Syria

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New Administration, "Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria"[edit]

Apparently the DFNS is being replaced (?) with the Autonomous Admin of N&E Syria(AANES/NES)? It appears that DFNS may have only referred to the areas currently designated a region (as well as Manbij), whereas the regions in the southeast are part of a different structure, and these 2 structures are being unified into AANES. Something like that? I'm not sure what the administration change is officially, but essentially what was previously referred to as the DFNS is now the AANES/NES.
Sources: [1] [2] [3] [4]
So I believe the article should be renamed to either 'Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria' or 'Northern and Eastern Syria' to reflect this administration change. Thespündragon 19:19, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

@Thespoondragon: Yes, it seems that the new entity has replaced the DFNS. However this is still a relatively new change so at least a week should pass after debate on this page before changes are made. Some questions remain such as the status of the three DFNS regions (Jazira, Euphrates, Afrin) in relation to the affiliated regions/civil councils (Raqqa, Tabqa, Manbij, Deir ez-Zor) - if they're all equal subordinate regions of the new entity or not, as well as regarding the precise English name and abbreviation of the entity. The name in Arabic (الإدارة الذاتية لشمال وشرق سوريا), Kurmanji (Rêveberiya Xweser a Bakur û Rojhilatê Sûriyeyê), Turkish (Kuzey ve Doğu Suriye Özerk Yönetimi) and Syriac (ܡܕܰܒܪܳܢܘܬ݂ܳܐ ܝܳܬ݂ܰܝܬܳܐ ܠܓܰܪܒܝܳܐ ܘܡܰܕܢܚܳܐ ܕܣܘܪܝܰܐ - Mdabronuṯo Yoṯayto l-Garbyo w-Madnḥyo d-Suriya) can be seen on the emblem featured on this page (https://anfdeutsch.com/rojava-syrien/beratungen-der-autonomieverwaltung-zur-aktuellen-situation-8527), however the English name is translated as "Self-Administration in North and East Syria" (http://repsanes.net/) and "Self-Administration of North and East Syria" (http://rojavabenelux.nl) on two official pages with the abbreviation being "SANES", while "Autonomous Administration" might be a more correct translation and is also used on the official ANHA news page and in English-speaking media when referring to the entity. AntonSamuel (talk) 21:00, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
I agree that we should wait for more information before renaming the article and such, though maybe we should mention the Admin. change in 'Polity names and translations' or a different section? Thespündragon 13:25, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
As for which name to use, I think the translation Self-Administration of North and East Syria/SANES is the one we should use, as it is used on official sites, and both translations are used on pro-sdf news sites such as ANF. (plus SANES is a nicer acronym than AANES in my opinion) We could also put in polity names that it is translated as both, like we have on the YPJ and YPG pages. Thespündragon 17:02, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
I also believe it is best to wait, also because the Syrian government and the SDF have increased cooperation greatly since YPG invited the SAA into Manbij. Who knows, perhaps in short time the region or parts of it will return to the government. LyriaSiders 19:18, 4 January 2019 (CET)

Tagging previous editors of this page: @Applodion: @Jim7049: @Khoshhat: @Purijj: @Editor abcdef: @Cirflow: @2A1ZA: @Nøkkenbuer: @Bobfrombrockley: @Takinginterest01: What do you guys think regarding a potential name change? Which English translation would you be in favor of? AntonSamuel (talk) 13:57, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

I think maybe wait a while before changing the article name. SAMES seems to be more officially used so far, but Self is a clunkier translation than Autonomous, so i wouldn't be surprised if latter starts being used more. But maybe edit the lead sooner? BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:07, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Agreed, let's wait a while before changing the name (until more information comes out in terms of the stature of this new administration). Purijj (talk) 16:09, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Info: Kongreya Star's twitter says that there are 7 regions in the SANES, Afrin, Manbij, Kobani(Euphrates), Jazira, Tabqa, Raqqa, and Deir Ezzor [5], i'm trying to obtain a better source Thespündragon 22:17, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

I think we should use the official name and go with it from there Takinginterest01 (talk) 23:34, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Lede: The Self-Administration of North and East Syria (SANES) (languages bit), commonly referred to as Rojava or Northern and Eastern Syria, is a de facto autonomous region in northeastern Syria. It consists of three self-governing regions, Afrin Region, Jazira Region, and Euphrates Region, and local councils in the Manbij, Tabqa, Raqqa, and Deir Ez-Zor regions. (then the rest of it)
I used SANES as it is the most used on official sites. Thespündragon 00:11, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

@AntonSamuel I believe at this point enough time has passed that we can start converting the articles to the new name. I believe we should use the official translation SANES or "the Self-Administration" when referring to the Administration itself (ie: the SANES has 3 self-governing regions ... ), and using "Northern and Eastern Syria", "Northern Syria", etc when referring to the region (Policing in Northern and Eastern Syria is performed by the Asayish ... ) Thespündragon 20:31, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
And in the "Politiy names and translations section" we should say something like "there are multiple translations of this into english, including the Self-Administration of North and East Syria, the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, among others." Thespündragon 20:35, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@Thespoondragon: While I appreciate that you want to keep the article(s) updated and factually correct which I do too, I'm still not so sure if it's prudent to change them yet, I've been trying to keep track of more publications regarding the issue, but there is still a lack of clear information about the nature of the administration and its sub-regions, such as was provided by the ANHA News agency about the different regions during the elections in Northern Syria. There also seems to be a consensus by the other editors here to hold until more information becomes available. In the mean time, updating some parts of the article describing the name change without moving it could be a good idea. I also think a fitting solution regarding the name would be to rename the article to "Northeast Syria" and specify the exact name "Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" or "Self-Administration of North and East Syria" using the "NES" abbreviation, while specifying that "SANES" have also been used by the EU representation offices. I would argue that this is the most prudent solution since "NES", "Northeast Syria" or "North East Syria" are shorter names and abbreviations and they are also the terms employed by organizations connected to the United Nations such as these: https://uncareer.net/search?q=nes+syria https://www.humanitarianresponse.info/operations/whole-of-syria and the "Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" and "NES" abbreviation seems to be confirmed by Kongra Star here: https://twitter.com/starcongress/status/1080768956112228352 AntonSamuel (talk) 21:37, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
@AntonSamuel: (on mobile, fhis may be formatted or typed badly) I agree that moving the article to Northeast Syria/North and East Syria/etc would make the most sense, especially per WP:COMMONNAME, and the rest of your suggestions also make sense. In my prev. post, I was only arguing for editing the name components of the article right now, which you appear to agree with. On an unrelated note, the Raqqa, Deir Ezzor, etc Administrations do not seem to have a corresponding NES Region yet, as the SA-NES Benelux office website only lists the Cizire, Afrin, and Euphrates regions. [6] Thespündragon 22:12, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 17 January 2019[edit]

Democratic Federation of Northern SyriaNorthern and Eastern Syria – In Late 2018-early 2019 the regional administration changed it's name from the DFNS to Self-Adminstration / Autonomous Administration of Northern and Eastern Syria (see above discussion). The common name for the region itself is Northern and Eastern Syria(with variations in exact grammar)
SA-NES Representation in Benelux ANF News article on the recent Manbij bombing, uses Northern and Eastern Syria search results on ANF for Northern and Eastern Syria Jerusalem Post uses both Northeast Syria and North and East Syria Reuters, both northern and eastern Syria and Northeast Syria (I used both instances mentioning the SA/AA-NES, and referring to it as a geographical area in relation to SDF controlled areas)
This would also include changing mentions of the region in the article to Northern and Eastern Syria/NES or the Autonomous/Self Administration depending on context (see above discussion) Thespündragon 16:53, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose Northeast Syria describes the region where this administration is found, no sources suggest that it is the name of the group and it's WP:SYNTH to assume that newspapers are referring to the group. "Autonomous Administration of North and East of Syria" might be an acceptable new name, but it's likely too soon for that move as well, the sources above say "tentatively known". power~enwiki (π, ν) 16:54, 21 January 2019 (UTC)