Talk:Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Bari-Bitonto

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Misuse of Sources in this article[edit]

The following two paragraph-sentences occur in the article on the Archdiocese of Bari:

"By contrast to Bisanzio's Catholicism affections, Andreas, the archbishop from 1062 to at least 1066, kept an eye to the roots of his Faith, for example journeying to Constantinople, and at some point even converting to Judaism. Archbishop Andreas then fled to Muslim-dominated Egypt, where he eventually died in 1078.[1]

"Remarkably, the next archbishop Urso (1080–1089)[2] was captured by the Muslim forces and converted to Islam.[3]"

What Steven Epstein actually says is the following:

What little John tells about his youth concerns a story about Andreas, the renegade archbishop of Bari. The rumor eventually reached Bari that this Andreas fled to Constantinople, converted to Judaism, was circumsized, and then went to Cairo. Joshua Prower has looked closely for the seeds of truth in this rumor and found a captured archbishop of Bari named Urso in Egypt around the time of the First Crusade (1095-99) who had converted, presumably to Islam. There was indeed an Andreas archbishop of Bari who whent to Constantinople in 1066 and was never heard from again. These stories may have become conflated in young John's mind and set an example that it was possible to entertain doubts about Christianity, convert, and then flee to the only safe place for such a person, the wrold of Islam. John believed that Andreas had become a Jew, not a safe decision for any Latin or Greek Christian in southern Italy to make.

Epstein makes clear several times the dubious quality of the story. He immediately picks out the word 'rumor'. The scholar Joshua Prower, looking for the 'seeds of truth in this rumor,' found a similar tale about a different Archbishop of Bari, Urso. But as for Andreas, he got to Constantinople and was never heard from again. Andreas' conversion and circumcision cannot be verified. Urso cannot be said to have been captured by Muslims or to have been converted to Islam. He may have been converted, though that is a gratuitous assumption, and it may have been a conversion to Islam, but that too is a gratuitous assumption and there are other possibilities. Neither of the two sentences in the article can stand as facts. The POV Catholic tone of the sentence about Andreas is offensive and tendentious, especially in the context of conversion to Judaism and Islam. --Vicedomino (talk) 04:05, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed[edit]

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A considerable amount of text was copy-pasted directly from the website of Gabriel Chow, called GCatholic, which is a copyrighted page.

The copy-paste includes most of the first twenty-five lines on the page.

I have removed the offending text from the article.

--Vicedomino (talk) 00:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

  1. ^ Norman Golb (1987) Jewish Proselytism — A Phenomenon in the Religious History of Early Medieval Europe, pp. 10–11
  2. ^ Thomas Forrest Kelly (1996) The Exultet in Southern Italy, p. 215 google books preview
  3. ^ Steven Epstein (2007) Purity Lost: Transgressing Boundaries in the Eastern Mediterranean, 1000–1400, p. 145 google books preview