Talk:Romanticism in Scotland

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Good article Romanticism in Scotland has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
April 18, 2013 Good article nominee Listed
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DYK nomination[edit]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Romanticism in Scotland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 02:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi SabreBD, assuming you don't mind another review from me so soon, I'd be glad to take this one. (If for any reason you'd rather have fresh eyes on your work, I wouldn't be at all offended to pass this on to another reviewer.) Initial comments to follow in the next 1-3 days. Thanks in advance for your work on this important topic. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely no problem. I look forward to it. Thanks for taking this on.--SabreBD (talk) 07:04, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments[edit]

Wow, what a terrific job you've done with this article--I can't praise your work here enough. Usually a Wikipedia article on a broad topic like this becomes a list of undifferentiated data points, but this one moves efficiently through its topic, gives overview and context, and provides well-sourced analysis from a number of sources. I learned quite a bit from reading it.

This seems ripe for promotion to me, but I do have some prose quibbles, mostly a few pronouns that need clarifying, that will need to be addressed first. You can find them listed below. I also made some minor copyedits as I went; please doublecheck that I haven't inadvertently introduced any error, and feel free to revert anything you disagree with. -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:41, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

  • "Philosophy was dominated by Scottish Common Sense Realism ... " Does this mean "Romantic philosophy", "Scottish philosophy", "Western philosophy"...?
  • This isn't an action point, but I just wanted to say that Drabble's definition of romanticism is a very helpful one; I wish I had run into that while I was teaching!
  • I added a few paragraph breaks, one of which is at "The Scottish national drama... " Does the reference after that sentence apply to all of the above as well? If so, I'll duplicate it for the paragraph above, or you can.
  • "Ossian itself became a common subject for Scottish artists, and works based on its themes" -- the pronoun here confuses me. Shouldn't Ossian be a him/her as a person (even a fictional one)? Or is "Ossian" also the name of the work?
  • "Jacob More's (1740–93) "Falls of Clyde" " -- it isn't at all necessary for GA, but it would be great to add an image of this to the article at some point.
  • " It is most clearly seen " -- what is "it" in this sentence? The Gothic revival? Or one of the Adams' styles?
  • "have been seen as the musical equivalent of Abbotsford and Balmoral" -- is it possible to state what author/authors sees them this way?
  • "Those authors who consider that there was a Scottish national history in Scottish Romanticism indicate that it existed outside of the production of major historical narratives" -- I'm having trouble parsing this sentence--can it be rephrased?
  • "has been likened to the German historian Georg Heinrich Pertz" " have led to comparisons with Ranke" -- can you add a bit more context to explain why these connections are relevant? It seems like the focus here ought to be on the works they produced rather than historians with similar styles. But I'm not familiar with any of these names, so it may be that I just need a couple of words of context. (e.g., "comparisons with the positivist German historian Leopold von Ranke"). Even in that example, though, the connection still isn't clear--did Ranke also write about Mary, Queen of Scots?
  • "As defined by Susan Cannon, this placed" -- what is "this" here-- Humboldtian science, I'm guessing?
  • "It was highly influential, particularly in Germany" -- does "it" here mean this concept, or Elementa Medicinae generally?
  • "compressive written argument" -- is "comprehensive" meant here?
  • " It had been pioneered in Scotland by figures including Robert Knox (1791–1862).[83]" -- what is "it" in this sentence?
  • "tartenry" -- is it correct to spell this as "tartenry" and not "tartanry"?
  • "However, it was not directed into nationalism until the twentieth century." --what is "it" in this sentence--political radicalism, or one of these named groups?
  • "and it would later be a major influence on Charles Darwin" -- clarify "it"
  • "James McCosh (1811–94) brought it directly from Scotland to North American in 1868" -- is "it" here German Idealism or Common Sense Realism?
  • "of a Scottish contribution to the British rival of music in the late nineteenth century" -- is "revival" here meant instead of rival? If so, I'm also not clear what's meant by "revival of music"; it seems unlikely that the British didn't have music for a period before this.
  • This is by no means needed for GA status, but I wanted to mention for consideration for the "influence" section the famous, half-joking trope that Scott caused the American Civil War through his popularity in the American South. I think this originated with Mark Twain [1]. It might be worth a sentence.
Many thanks for your kind comments and all the helpful suggestions. I think I have fixed all the clarity issues, but I have left a couple of the suggestions because it will probably take a bit more concentration that I can muster at the most. I will have a look at those tomorrow, all being well.--SabreBD (talk) 21:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Great, thanks. The only clarity point I think remains is what is meant by "British revival of music"-- is a particular kind of music meant, or was music generally actually out of favour in Britain for a bit? The other stuff is all optional. I'll start the checklist in a moment. -- Khazar2 (talk) 22:40, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well written:
1a. the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct. Minor clarity point above. Spotchecks show no evidence of copyright issues.
1b. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
2b. all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines.
2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). This article is admirable in its use of summary, covering the subject thoroughly in only 37kb of readable prose; most articles would be twice this length, while adding little important content.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:
6a. images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content. File:Nasmyth Alexander Highland Loch.jpg, File:Thomas Carlyle daguerreotype, 1848.jpg, File:Transactions of the Linnean Society of London, Volume 10 - tab. 3.jpg, File:DugaldStewart.jpg, File:Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy 1848.jpg and File:Hamish MacCunn.JPG appear to need a US PD tag, though all these images seem likely to be public domain.
6b. images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
7. Overall assessment. Pass
I fixed the last clarification and added the US PD tags to the commons pics. They all seem to be in the public domain. On the two suggestions: I have a little bit more text for the art section, as I am working on a Scottish art in the nineteenth century article, so I may try to get the Falls of the Clyde pic in with that. If not it is probably more useful to supporting the text than the current one, so I would probably think about a strait replacement. On the "Scott's disease" issue, yes it was Twain who put the thesis forward, but I am not quite sure if that fits in. I am sure I have read something about the reception of Scott and Celtic Romanticism in the South, but it may take a while to find again.--SabreBD (talk) 20:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)