|WikiProject Canada / Ontario / Toronto / Communities||(Rated B-class, Low-importance)|
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Italic textAre we treating "Roncesvalles Village" as having started with the arrival of the Poles, or should it not go back to discuss earlier inhabitants of the community pre-1940? Kind of a strange implication, that the community became gentrified after being a Polish community... :) --Krupo 17:27, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
- I don't have any historical information on the neighbourhood, but if you do, you're welcome to add it to the article. Though, the article should explain that "Roncesvalles Village" did not really exist until the BIA was created. As for the Polish-gentrification bit, it's not a causality thing; gentrification undoubtedly occurred here because of its relative proximity to downtown/accessibility to public transport and the relative low cost of housing stock in the area. Darkcore 23:16, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
- Ah, makes sense - yeah, the area was really split between Parkdale and High Park until the BIA, and the custom street signs, came along. Seems like a creation of the past 15-25 years (when the street signs that actually call the area that appeared). I wonder how much effect the closure of the whorehouse/crackhouse that used to be the Edgewater had? ;) Once again, is it cause, or effect? :) Krupo 01:24, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
- Speaking of the BIA, phenomenon, I looked up Swansea, and then ended up writing this... not included in article yet b/c I'm not sure of relevance... ideas?: "Ironically, Swansea is sometimes incorrectly called Bloor_West_Village, after the articially-named area of that name."
- I don't quite get what you mean by "artificially-named area." Darkcore 05:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Yeah, I quickly realized that was a bad way of phrasing it. I was trying to make a distinction between an area named after an actual village which was later annexed by the city, contrasting with an area which gave itself a 'village' name after the fact. Does that make more sense? Krupo 17:35, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
Well, first, I don't see how it really matters (of course, you can talk about how/why it was named that, but I don't really see why any "contrast" is necessary) and second, lots of Toronto neighbourhoods were not named after "villages", including Church and Wellesley (even if it is a "village"), Korea Town, The Danforth, The Kingsway, etc. Darkcore 15:49, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- It's not a big deal at all, with one exception: people trying to learn about the history of the area, trying to learn about "Roncesvalles Village." While gay village or Korea Town can be identified as new things (more acceptance for gays, new immigration), the Roncesvalles Village tag isn't as obvious. Krupo 22:09, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
The current description does a good enough job of explaining the background behind the name. Darkcore 04:49, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's cool. :) Krupo 07:18, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
I used to live on Roncesvalles in the mid 80's. I too remember the old Edgewater hotel. Cleaned up around the time they "cleaned out" the homeless peoples 'cave' at the bottom of the street near the Katyn monument. This was to make then President Ronald Regan's trip from Pearson airport more 'senic'as he came in for a G7 meeting downtown. At the same time the economics of the city were changing for the arts community. As prices rose along Queen west, artists had to move further west. Many came to Roncesvalles, and also got studios along Sauraren ave. The Edgewater hosted local and hardcore bands for a while and alternated with C&W. I'm sure current residents are happy with what's happened to real estate values lately, but I'm sure the artists who helped make the area interesting have had to move on.
Here's a linkto a site by a guy named Rick Bébout who goes over some recent area history with photos.
As a 20 year resident of the Roncesvalles Village area I can attest to the fact that the short form "Ronces" refers to the street rather than the area. That is, someone may live "on Ronces" or "just off Ronces" but not "in Ronces."
The term Roncesvalles Village refers to the BIA, which also refers only to the commercial properties on Roncesvalles Avenue. Further, this term was thrust upon the residents of the neighbourhood and is, as a previous contributor has noted, somewhat of a artificial de jure name for the area. The adoption of this name was poorly received by some residents (myself included) because of the similarity to nearby Bloor West Village, and the appearance of wannabee-ism.
The neighbourhood which extends to the east of Roncesvalles is technically Parkdale, and the neghbourhood to the west is technically High Park. However, some people refer to the area between Parkside and Sorauren and Howard Park and Marion as "howmapaso," no doubt inspired by NYC's TriBeCa, etc.
Ask some residents.
--Happy wanderer 16:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that "Ronces" is never used to describe the neighbourhood, just the street. However, I grew up in this area and I have never heard the name "howmapaso" used to describe the neighbourhood. That name is beyond silly. Darkcore 18:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
more exact borders?
Can we give it more exact borders? for example is 43 wright avenue in roncesvalles village?--Sonjaaa 23:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Pronunciation of Roncesvalles
I have always wondered how Roncesvalles 'should' be pronounced and how it is actually pronounced. A I had always assumed it to be French, I was expecting Ron-se-val but heard when I visited the area in the 70s and 80s Ron-cus-vales. Is this roughly the pronunciation today and is it how it would be pronounced in Spanish? --User:Brenont 02:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hard to say. Apparently it is ron-thes-VAL-yes in the dialect local to the Spanish Roncesvalles. In Toronto it is RON-ses-vails or RON-sees for short. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Happy wanderer (talk • contribs) 00:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
the articles "Roncesvalles" which the link points to has nothing about the battle of 1813. Perhaps someone (more comfortable than I am at using the codes etc) could add that there. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 00:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- Done. The wording might not be the most elegant, but it's there. Franamax (talk) 04:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)