Talk:Roy Moore sexual misconduct allegations

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common elements of accusers[edit]

Firstly there is the issue that the Gadsden Mall is mentioned by Miller (working as Santa's helper ~77 when 14) then Richardson (Sears in Fall of 77) and Gray (also 77) then Deason (18 in 1979) still not sure why our Deason section is before our Richardson section since 77 precedes 79.

Pizitz is also a common element in 2 stories: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/two-more-women-describe-unwanted-overtures-by-roy-moore-at-alabama-mall/2017/11/15/2a1da432-ca24-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.2f3c0da10903

  • Becky Gray, who was then 22 and working in the men’s department of Pizitz.
  • Pizitz is also where Deason told The Post last week that Moore asked her out when she was 18 and working behind the jewelry counter.

So there is a 2-element overlap here in 1 store: Gray in men's department, Deason in jewelry department. Whereas Richardson, also talks about a Gadsden Mall men's department but this was the Sears men's department.

Our Gray section has this "local mall" nonsense so I'm going to add both Gadsden and Pizitz there for clarification.

Another issue is which of the accusers knew each other. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.9dae49224b3d states " The women say they don’t know one another." but I'm not sure which women in total this was referring to, since I think we had the statements come in 2 batches.

The only connection I've come across is per http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/new_roy_moore_accuser_he_didnt.html

Thorp knows one of Moore's accusers, Leigh Corfman, who told The Washington Post that Moore had a sexual encounter with her when she was 14. Thorp believes Corfman's story and said she is proud of her for telling it publicly.

Aside from this I can't recall coming across any other indications of the women knowing each other. Does anyone know otherwise? ScratchMarshall (talk) 17:58, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Beverly Young (later Nelson) and Moore's future wife, Kayla Kisor, were in the same sophomore high school class. [1][2][3] -- BullRangifer (talk) 05:01, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Maynard von Spiegelfeld[edit]

per https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/two-more-women-describe-unwanted-overtures-by-roy-moore-at-alabama-mall/2017/11/15/2a1da432-ca24-11e7-b0cf-7689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.2f3c0da10903

She says he lingered in her section, or else by the bathroom area, and that she became so disturbed that she complained to the Pizitz manager, Maynard von Spiegelfeld. Gray says he told her that it was “not the first time he had a complaint about him hanging out at the mall.” Von Spiegelfeld has since died, according to a relative.

I'm wondering if we could find something more informative than 'since died' like the year he died, and a clearer source than Post's "a relative". I couldn't find anything using VS as a surname or using Von as a middle name. Also searching the name 2016 and earlier doesn't turn up anything.

This not only alleges that Spiegelfeld had received a prior complaint, but http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roy-moore-accuser-banned-mall/story?id=51195632 has Gray imply that Spiegelfeld enacted a ban:

“I went to my manager and talked to him about it and asked him, basically, what could be done,” Becky Gray told ABC News late Wednesday night. “Later on, he…came back through my department and told me that [Moore] had been banned from the mall.”

I'm also wondering if anyone has reported from any friends/relatives of Gray since according to her she had mentioned this prior to the WashPo article:

Gray told ABC News she shared her stories about Moore with co-workers and family members over the years, but didn’t come forward publicly until The Washington Post first reported earlier this month the allegations against Moore from other alleged victims. “I [have] repeated this story...many times. People who know me know what I've always said about him, and that he was not Christian, and that he was a pervert,” she said.

Has anyone reported confirmation or denial of this from sources claiming to have been friends or relatives? Something like this exists for the Corfman story for example in https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.9dae49224b3d :

Betsy Davis, who remains friendly with Corfman and now lives in Los Angeles, says she clearly remembers Corfman talking about seeing an older man named Roy Moore when they were teenagers. She says Corfman described an encounter in which the older man wore nothing but tight white underwear. She says she was firm with Corfman that seeing someone as old as Moore was out of bounds. “I remember talking to her and telling her it’s not a good idea,” Davis says. “Because we were so young.”

Plus Corfman's mom and some other person who was kept anon due to fear of job loss. The Sears worker had a Sears coworker support, for example. Could not find this for Gray. Would like to list associated sources to accusers wherever possible. ScratchMarshall (talk) 18:11, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

This is the same rapid-fire approach you pulled at Unite the Right rally, trying to remove the terrorism categories, going on and on and on about vehicle make, model, and color, and inserting the alt-right-favored "heart attack" stuff. . Slow down. Not everything that pops into your head needs it's own section, one after the other after the other. Editing a controversial should be a deliberate process, not a sprint. ValarianB (talk) 18:50, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
Valerian you are clearly engaged in some kind of stalking/harassment vendetta against me, I believe you should recuse yourself from objecting to anything I do from now on and allow uninvolved editors to discuss it. ScratchMarshall (talk) 20:04, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
My friend, my first involvement in this Roy Moore article was on Dec 1st, while yours was Dec 17th. If you wish to get into a discussion about stalking, I feel that that conversation will not go the way you think it will go. ValarianB (talk) 20:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Breitbart News heading[edit]

In the 'reactions' section there's a specific subheading for reactions from Breitbart (under 'Moore and his campaign'). Of course Breitbart is closely linked to Moore's campaign, but if there's no need for a subheading for other news reactions do we really need one for Breitbart? 65.122.128.10 (talk) 17:42, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I think you've answered your own question. Artw (talk) 18:49, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Richardson and Republicanism[edit]

@ValarianB: in special:diff/816171632 removed the following information from the Washington Post source:

She describes herself as a moderate Republican and says she didn’t vote in the 2016 general election or in this year’s Republican Senate primary in Alabama.

I used it to support this sentence in the article:

Richardson, who describes herself as a moderate Republican who did not vote in the 2016 general election or the 2017 Republican Senate primary in Alabama

VB simply changed this to:

Richardson, who is a Republican

I am wrongly accused of synthesis simply for reporting the very information which the Washington Post itself conveyed.

The ACTUAL synthesis here is calling Richardson a republican. This is ORIGINAL RESEARCH because the cited Washington Post article never called her a Republican. ValerianB is engaged in WP:OR by calling Richardson a Republican based on this source.

We should be neutral like the Washington Post was, and report that she describes herself as one. There is no need to take sides in an issue and simply present statements from any side as truth.

I mean, for example, if Roy Moore said "I am a non-rapist" and WashPo had reported "Moore describes himself as a non-rapist" we would not report "Moore is a non-rapist".

I am requesting we restore the correct and accurate conveyance of this information and remove Valerian's PoV-pushing OR. ScratchMarshall (talk) 20:01, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Mr. Marshall, your editing to political articles has been a detriment to the project, with nearly every edit of yours to a variety of articles reverted by many many, many different editors. I fully stand behind my removal of your tangled, unnecessary verbosity. ValarianB (talk) 20:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Do we need to include her political affiliation and voting history at all? It makes sense to cover this in a newspaper bio, but not in an encyclopedia article. –dlthewave 02:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Because Moore was running for office at the time and Moore and his defenders charged that the accusations were politically motivated, I think it makes sense. -- irn (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
@ValarianB: Your response is little more than a personal attack. We shuld be discussing the merits of the edit in question. SM's edit more accurately reflects what is in the source. Yes, it is slightly more wordy, but per WP:BLP, accuracy is more important. -- irn (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
My response is an observation based on months of observation, shared by many other editors who have had to deal with his disruption. ValarianB (talk) 14:56, 2 January 2018 (UTC)