Talk:Saffronisation

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I think this page should be merged as section in the page of Hindutva


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Neologism[edit]

This article documents WP:NEO "A new term does not belong in Wikipedia unless there are reliable sources specifically about the term — not just sources which mention it briefly or use it in passing". Both "Saffronization" and "Saffron Brigade" are Neologisms. Nihar S (talk) 04:47, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Synthesis[edit]

The basic definition in the first line itself is synthesised. One of the three references provided does not exist. The other two do not define what is "saffronisation" but use it just in passing.Nihar S (talk) 04:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

true. I have cited the definition from the 2003 Encyclopedia of Religious Freedom. As for "neologism", the article is up front about this term being a political neologism, and it is duly placed in Category:Neologisms. --dab (𒁳) 07:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Content[edit]

Shouldn't this article discuss the actual events of saffronization, not merely the meaning of the term? Uday Reddy (talk) 12:49, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

It most certainly should. I also think that the term "Saffron Brigade" has no relevance here; if anything, it should be on the Sangh Parivar page. I have boldly removed it; revert me if you will (anybody, that is, not just Reddy) but please discuss. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:48, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Notes[edit]

The notes are longer than the article! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:18, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, from the notes, it appears that Murli Manohar Joshi introduced the term. He and all his disciples seem upset that people think it is a stupid idea. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. What does he mean when he says "do they understand the meaning of saffronisation?" Kautilya3 (talk) 19:21, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
But, I think Joshi was being needlessly defensive. "Saffron" has been used to describe the RSS, BJP and VHP and their brand of nationalism for a long time.
  • The "Brotherhood in Saffron" by Andersen and Damle was published in 1988.
  • The "Khaki shorts and Saffron Flags" by Bipan Chandra et al. was published in 1993.
  • The book "The Saffron Wave" by Thomas Blom Hansen was published in 1999, and it might have been written at least a year earlier.
  • For demolishing the Babri Masjid, the VHP handed out saffron bandanas by the millions. They were practically everywhere!
  • Frontline had an article in 1997[1] where the term "saffronisation of Congress(I)" was used for the Congress legislators buying into the BJP.
  • The term "saffron brigade" was also widely used at that time, and here[2] Frontline uses it with an explicit definition to mean "aggressive Hindu chauvinists."
  • In 1998, it is used in the context "saffronisation of education" where the influence of the "Hindu Right" on education is meant.[3]
So, our article is wrong when it claims that "saffron" is an allusion to the Hindu sannyasis' robes. It is really an allusion to the RSS, BJP and the VHP, and more generally the "Hindu Right" and the "aggressive Hindu chauvinists." So, I am going to get rid of the references to Hindu robes and all the junk in the footnotes. Kautilya3 (talk) 20:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
Now watch Maharashtra Assembly getting `saffronised'! [1] Kautilya3 (talk) 11:14, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Venkitesh Ramakrishnan (1 November 1997). "A Pyrrhic victory?". Frontline. 14 (22). Retrieved 2014-11-08. 
  2. ^ N. Ram (9 August 1997). "Political India over fifty years". Frontline. 14 (16). Retrieved 2014-11-05. 
  3. ^ "Editorial: Unfit to rule". Frontline. 15 (25). 5 December 1998. Retrieved 2014-11-08. 

Notable Examples[edit]

Building on the legacy discussion on the Notes section being longer than the article itself (see above), perhaps we should create a section of notable examples of saffronisation ? Adding a section of a few notable examples would give context by demonstrating the acts of saffronisation. There was a notable example at JNU. Before I read up for other examples, can we reach a consensus about creating a brief section for notable examples ? Maslowsneeds (talk) 12:16, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Some senior editors think that the pages on neologisms should just discuss the terms but not the phenomena. But I think it is fine to expand the article, and, if it comes to that, we can split it into a separate article. - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:44, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
I see. I'm not trying to overwhelm the article with examples, maybe just 3 or so, so we can see the neologism in practise. I don't know if I want to unleash the creation of a list-class, spin-off article. Let's see what others think. If it is too controversial, I'll just make my amendments about saffronisation on the respective articles of universities where it's been observed. No worries. Maslowsneeds (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
We all know that the heaviest usage of "saffronisation" is in the context of the saffronisation of the school text books. There should be at least a small section on it.
The trouble here has been an effort by the Hindu nationalists to paint the term as an effort to disgrace Hindu asceticism. The controversy has been introduced by Murli Manohar Joshi, but he was of course being disingeneous because, being an RSS pracharak, he knows that the RSS has been using a Saffron Flag since the 1930s. So explaining why "saffron" is being used as a metaphor in this term is an important objective for this article. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:52, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
I think that what you described helped me understand the two ways of viewing saffronisation better than what is being communicated by the article, and that was all I was really looking for. Rather than needing to provide examples, what if what you described in your talk comments above served as a model to communicate with clarity in the article the complexities of saffronisation ? I see hints of it in the article, but, seeing as how this brief article has undergone heavy amendments, maybe that's gotten lost in all the revision ? I just wish the article was as express as your talk comments, so people (or really, I) could "get it." Let me think about it some more. Maybe it's better to just leave this article alone and, instead, to just keep trying to focus the article's description to match what you just now wrote in your talk comments ? Maslowsneeds (talk) 13:33, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Well, I can write about the history of saffron, but I will leave it to you to expand the saffronisation of text books. - Kautilya3 (talk) 15:40, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
O.K., I will be posting a section later today. This is very complex. Given that this article speaks to saffronisation, I'm giving examples of that, as it relates to textbooks. But I will go out of the way to note that textbook revisions have become cyclical (now). I'm completely open to input to make sure that there is a NPOV here. Maslowsneeds (talk) 18:40, 10 March 2016 (UTC)