Talk:Saint Nicholas

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Images[edit]

Just to say; I have written permission to use all the images found in: "St. Nicholas: A Closer Look at Christmas", from the owner of the images..... MacOfJesus (talk) 15:39, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Siġġiewi[edit]

Siġġiewi is an area in the mid-south of Malta.......

However, an explanation of a connection to Malta sourced would have to be given in the Article Page of Saint Nicholas for it to be accepted....

MacOfJesus (talk) 12:35, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Saint Nicholas / Santa Clause....[edit]

We understand from research that the term: "Santa Clause" comes from the Dutch children's pronouncing of his name.....

This I put is on the page........ with clear reference to the well researched; "St Nicholas a Closer look at Christmas".....

It is changed to a more Scholarly account that may be out of the very reach of the young reader......

I am of the opinion that if an account can be made simply and plainly it should be in preference to a very esoteric account....

The Account now reads:

"Nicholas thus became the model for Santa Claus, whose modern name comes from the Dutch Sinterklaas, itself from a series of elisions and corruptions of the transliteration of "Saint Nikolaos".[52]

This seems to imply that there are two separate identities.....

"[52]", here, is the reference of the research I put in...... In comparing the two the wording of the reference in question in "St Nicholas, a closer look at Christmas"..... is far more understandable and well researched...... and the young reader will find it easier to understand....

MacOfJesus (talk) 18:04, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

____

In the Book, Chapter 8, this whole area is explored. In Turkey he is referred to as: "Noel Baba".....

I therefore ask that the section on Santa Clause be restored......

I said: Saint Nicholas, Santa Clause as he is known from the little Dutch children's pronouncation... the miracles associated with him has caused widespread devotion to him..... This account would better fit the study referenced in [52].....

MacOfJesus (talk) 18:25, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

As it stands, now, that statement on the page; "Nicholas thus became the model for Santa Claus, whose modern name comes from the Dutch Sinterklaas, itself from a series of elisions and corruptions of the transliteration of "Saint Nikolaos".[52]" in no way is the reference correct to the book in question......

MacOfJesus (talk) 18:37, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

FYI, it's Santa Claus. The Santa Clause is the name of a movie making a pun on his name. 2602:306:CFEA:170:79B8:9CB:589A:A04 (talk) 22:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
I deal with strict History and applications there of...... Anyone can mock and make fun of anything.... it is the world we live in...... Jesus was mocked as king.... It is not an option to bury your head in the sand...... MacOfJesus (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I have removed the reference as it does not fit the quote..... The proper sourced reference needs to be found..... Alternatively, a quote from the book I sourced would be more appropriate... MacOfJesus (talk) 13:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Now may I quote from the well written and greatly illustrated book: St. Nicholas A closer look at Christmas.......
"........The first church was dedicated to St. Nicholas......... The English may have defeated them militarily, but the land ~~ it's very heart and soul ~~ remain Dutch. The presence of St. Nicholas has been in the Hudson River country of America ever since the beginning. The New Amsterdam Dutch shortened 'Sinterklaas' [or Sinta Claes] to 'Santa Claus'. They mean the same thing: 'Holy' or 'Saint' Nicholas."
This is much more researched and relies on plain English.... [admittedly, I noticed that there is no 'e' at the end] MacOfJesus (talk) 13:15, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
May I refer all to a very well written and a Classic, now...... "The Complete Plain Words".. by Sir Ernest Gowers...... with the Pre-verse from John Eachard... " As if plain words, useful and intelligible instructions, were not as good for an esquire, or one that is in commission from the King, as for him that holds the plough...." MacOfJesus (talk) 14:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Quotations / References....[edit]

In the Article Page..... the key reference to the Saint's name is now:


"....Saint Nicholas became the model for Santa Claus, whose modern name comes from the Dutch Sinterklaas, itself from a series of elisions and corruptions of the transliteration of "Saint Nikolaos." When the Dutch originally came to America and established the colony of New Amsterdam, they brought the legend and traditions of Sinterklaas with them. The New Amsterdam Dutch later shortened "Sinterklaas" to "Santa Claus." [53]......."

This has the only direct reference to Joe Wheeler & Jim Rosental's book St Nicholas.....

The direct wording is...... Pg 166:

"... The New Amsterdam Dutch shortened "Sinterklaas" to "Santa Claus". They mean the same thing: "Holy" or Saint" Nicholas....."

There is no mention of "the model of Santa Claus"...... There is no mention of: " a series of elisions and corruptions of the transliteration of Saint Nikolaos..."

That is foreign to the book...... and the reference does not fit......

The proper reference to this has to be found.... or it has to be deleted......

"a series of elisions and corruptions" indicates that there was a history of the change of the name..... Hence, a reference is needed for this.....

Using the book mentioned to this vague reference dishonours the Authors of the book......

I will be seeking a category listing and ruling on vague / un-sourced entries.....

MacOfJesus (talk) 11:47, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

MacOfJesus (talk) 11:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)