Talk:Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania

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Off topic[edit]

John from Idegon (talk · contribs) tells me that the following (sentences 2-5) is off-topic:

"Saylorsburg is also known as the self-imposed exile home of Fethullah Gülen, an ally-turned-enemy of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. As the founder of the Gülen movement, he remains influential in Turkish politics.[1] According to Erdogan, Gülen is to be blamed for the July 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt. Erdogan has requested Gülen's extradition to Turkey but the U.S. has not complied with this request.[2][3]"

There's no question that this is what is in the sources, so I guess what he means is that it is a question of weight. I'd guess this is the most important thing that has happened in the town for 50 years, so questioning the weight sounds a bit silly. Perhaps there is a lack of space for this content? No, of course not. Maybe the point is that Gullen is not a "real Saylorvillite"? For shame! So please just spell it out - what is "off-topic" here?

I'll put it back in until there is a concensus to delete it.

Smallbones(smalltalk) 02:48, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]


  1. ^ Beaumont, Peter (16 July 2016). "Fethullah Gülen: who is the man Turkey's president blames for coup attempt?". The Guardian. Retrieved 16 July 2016.
  2. ^ Weise, Zia (July 18, 2016). "Who is Fethullah Gulen, the exiled cleric blamed for coup attempt in Turkey?". Telegraph. Retrieved July 18, 2016.
  3. ^ Coker, Margaret (July 26, 2016). "Turkish Premier Demands U.S. Help With Gulen". Wall Street Journal.
Firstly, the editing guideline WP:BRD is quite clear that challenged material must have consensus before replacing. It is not after all, WP:BRRD.
Second, I have no problem including this Turkish fella in the notable people's section with the appropriate copy (that being connection to the community - he lives there - and a short description of whatever his prime notability may be). However, in no case is copy about a coup in Turkey in any way relevant to understanding this community. Dude just happened to chose to live in thus community. His presence does not speak about the community at all. Do your references make some sort of link between this community and revolutionary activities in Turkey? No. The fact that the newswagons were there for a few days hold no long term import. Want a policy, although common sense should tell you? How about WP:NOTNEWS? Cause that is all this is....A short term news story that just happens to be set here. It could just as easily be anywhere else. By the way, until you have a consensus to include it, you have two editors that have removed it, a weak consensus for it not to be here. Unless or until there is consensus to include more, it's out. John from Idegon (talk) 03:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Firstly, there is no editing guideline WP:BRD - it's an essay. If you would like to discuss, please discuss, but please don't tell me that your deletion cannot be overturned because of a non-existent guideline.
3 editors have added material in that paragraph, plus a bit from an anon. One anon and you have deleted it. Please get your facts straight. The material stays in until I see a concensus against it. Smallbones(smalltalk) 03:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
placing notices at WikiProject Cities and WikiProject United States. How about you answer my arguement? John from Idegon (talk) 14:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(dropping by from WP:USA) I'm going to mostly agree with JfI here. Although the residence of this Turkish guy (don't have the keys on my keyboard to spell his name correctly) is notable enough for a mention, the bit about the coup is too far afield to merit mention here, per WP:COATRACK. The fact that the paragraph, as constituted, looks to be approaching half of the article content by volume also strongly suggests an issue with WP:UNDUE. As someone who lives in a really small place myself, the kind of place this town appears to be, I understand that getting material to beef up other areas of the article is likely to be difficult, but regardless, half of the article shouldn't be about this exiled politician. I would suggest, at minimum, deleting the third sentence, as well as trying to tighten the prose of the remaining sentences. The content should also be offset by a Notable residents header (or something to that ilk). It should be immediately evident to the reader that this information is not really about the town proper. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:19, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also agree with John from Idegon. Mentioning it in a Notable people section is certainly appropriate, along with a very brief explanation (like one sentence) of why the person is notable (connection with the 2016 Turkish coup attempt). Any kinds of superfluous details not directly related to the topic of this article aren't appropriate here. Readers who want to know more about that person (like his deeper connections to the coup attempt or his involvement in Turkish politics) can go to the article about that person. This article is about the town. Further, "is known as" is an instance of WP:WEASEL. "Known as" by whom? --JonRidinger (talk) 15:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I would propose the following:

==Notable people== [[Guys name]] - a key figure in [[article on coup]] resides here<ref>best source showing residence</ref>

Any further discussion? John from Idegon (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have a very limited understanding of the individual, but is he better known as the leader of the movement bearing his name or for the coup attempt? The phrasing of the paragraph as written makes it sound as though he's been accused of instigating the coup by the person the coup was against, but has not acknowledged involvement himself. Unless neutral, third-party sources corroborate his involvement, perhaps we should identify him as the leader of the movement instead of the individual behind the coup. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:34, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe you are correct Acdixon. I would support using the name of his movement in place of the article on the coup. The whole thing is so unconnected to the community, if there was a reasonable way to leave it all out I'd go for that, but alas, the guy does live there. John from Idegon (talk) 16:57, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
With no further discussion and no comment from Smallbones, I would say we have an agreement to remove the current material and add a notables section linking the fella to the movement he is a part of with no mention of the coup. Any discussion? John from Idegon (talk) 23:57, 29 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The suggest one liner is a currently no-go as of now it is completely unclear/unknown whether Gülen is a "central figure" in the coup attempt or not.--Kmhkmh (talk) 04:10, 30 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've gone ahead and changed the content to go with what appears to be the consensus here, addressing the concerns raised by Acdixon and Kmhkmh. I did not add any references as his tie to the community is well sourced in his bio and all the references here were on the coup. While on the COATRACK subject, I also removed a citation to a story on the coup being used to V the community's location in the Pocono Mountains. Someone is bound and determined to tie this article to that unrelated event. John from Idegon (talk) 15:24, 30 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The current version is fine with me.--Kmhkmh (talk) 16:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]