Talk:Science in the medieval Islamic world

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Turks[edit]

Al-Farabi is described as a "Persian scholar" by the majority of historians and this is evident and well-documented from his article, also, there's no evidence for Ibn Turk being an ethnic Turk, other people also had "Turk" epithet but weren't ethnic Turks, like Ishaq al-Turk, and no reliable historian described him as an ethnic Turk. -- Kouhi (talk) 17:52, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

And Ali Qushji's ethnicity is also disputed, some sources described him as Persian, others as Turkic. See the article for the sources. -- Kouhi (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

You are a Persian nationalist and Persian-centrist. Farabi was a Turk and almost off all historians say Farabi was a Turk. Sources in the middle. Mean of Ibn Turk is Son of Turk. Ibn Turk's ethnicity is undisputed. One, just one source is unavailable that say Ibn Turk was not a Turk in the world. Ninety-nine percent of the historians say that Ali Qushji was Turkic. This is really undisputed. Also saying Turkic about them Avicenna etc. What will these be? 24.133.181.141 (talk) 18:33, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Please be civil, this is a requirement on talk pages here. The question is what reliable sources say, not what editors believe. Please provide evidence from the best sources here, and we will together consider and assess the evidence and decide what to do. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
I see no reason for ethnicity to be mentioned at all. Commonly when refering to an Islamic scientist in another article, no mention is given of their ethnicity. Why not instead list these scientists by time period? FYI, Al-Farabi's ethnicity is disputed.--Kansas Bear (talk) 19:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
  • I think the article should focus on scientific fields (mathematics, astronomy, etc), rather than scientists themselves, the title of the article is "Science in the medieval Islamic world", not "Scientists of medieval Islam". In this current form, the article is no different than List of Muslim scholars. But this requires a major rewrite. I opened this section because of IP's edit war, but if we are going to restructure the article, I think the best thing to do is to rewrite it based on scientific fields. -- Kouhi (talk) 19:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

If Farabi's ethnicity is disputed, Avicenna, Khwarizmi, Biruni, Hayyan etc. were not certain Persian. Very sources are available about these people's Turkishness.

These sources about Ali Qushji's Turkishness: [1][2]

These sources about Farabi's Turkishness: [3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] 24.133.181.141 (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Both Kansas Bear and Kouhi see little or no need to talk about ethnicity of scientists; I'd agree that an article on science should pay very little attention to where people came from. I doubt we can reframe the article to avoid mentioning people altogether, but we can certainly refactor it in terms of the sciences that were studied at different times, mentioning who did what when as we do so. If readers need to know a scientist's ethnicity or city of origin, they can go to that scientist's article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:01, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
I agree, along with each scientific(mathematics, astronomy, etc) field be in chronological order. :) --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:07, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Even if the ethnicity of the scientists is not to be written, must add Turks to this sentence: Scientists within the Muslim-ruled areas had diverse ethnic backgrounds & included Arabs, Persians, Assyrians, Kurds and Egyptians. 24.133.181.141 (talk) 20:32, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Since that statement has proven to be contentious, and we seem to be coming to the view that we would be better off not mentioning ethnicity at all in the article, that sentence would be the first thing we'd delete. But let's wait and see what other editors feel about the matter. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:33, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Well, since it has gone quiet I am restructuring the article, removing discussion of where people came from and what ethnicity or religion they had, to focus on the science that was done in the medieval Islamic world. This will take time so I have created empty sections for the sciences involved. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:33, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

  1. ^ Siddiqi, Amir Hasan (1970), Cultural centres of Islam, Jamiyat-ul-Falah Publications, p. 90, Among them, a Turk from Central Asia, Ali Kuscu, was one of the finest mathematicians and astronomers of his epoch 
  2. ^ "During the fifteenth century this method of representing decimal fractions came to be known outside the Islamic world as the Turkish method, after a Turkish colleague of al-Kashi, known as Ali Qushji, who provided an explanation." Joseph, George Gheverghese (2010) The crest of the peacock: non-European roots of mathematics Princeton University Press, p. 469. ISBN 0-691-13526-6, ISBN 978-0-691-13526-7
  3. ^ Ateş 1990, p. 11
  4. ^ http://islamansiklopedisi.info/dia/pdf/c12/c120079.pdf
  5. ^ B.G. Gafurov, Central Asia:Pre-Historic to Pre-Modern Times, (Shipra Publications, 2005), 124; "Abu Nasr Farabi hailed from around ancient Farabi which was situated on the bank of Syr Daria and was the son of a Turk military commander".
  6. ^ Will Durant, The Age of Faith, (Simon and Schuster, 1950), 253.
  7. ^ Nicholas Rescher, Al-Farabi's Short Commentary on Aristotle's Prior Analytics, University of Pittsburgh Pre, 1963, p.11, Online Edition.
  8. ^ Antony Black, The History of Islamic Political Thought: From the Prophet to the Present, Routledge, p. 61, Online Edition
  9. ^ James Hastings, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Kessinger Publishing, Vol. 10, p.757, Online Edition
  10. ^ * edited by Ted Honderich. (1995). The Oxford companion to philosophy. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 269. ISBN 0-19-866132-0 "Of Turki origin, al-Farabi studied under Christian thinkers"