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January 19, 2004 Refreshing brilliant prose Not kept


Due the form and manner of the group anonymous, it could be said that they would be a splincter group form ´scientiology´ itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:17, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

No, it couldn't. That would be wrong. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:05, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

evaluation of your lead paragraph or two[edit]

I think a neutral description of "Scientology" (for example, if one of my friends had never heard of it) would be "An extremely controversial "religion" (I'll explain the air quotes in a second) that is banned in Germany. For example, I had to sign a document for employment, saying I was not a scientologist. To explain why it's a "religion" in quotation marks: it was created by an extremely famous and well-known science-fiction Author (as famous as Isaac Asimov or the most famous, seminal sci-fi writers.) There are uncontested and well-known documents in which L. Ron Hubbard himself says that to "realy rake it in" you should found a religion, i.e. a for-profit organization. Thus Scientology is almost a demonstration of the absurdity of religions. Nevertheless, that is only just how it started: L. Ron Hubbard then took his organization very seriously. It expanded aggressively and was in lots of controversies around its methods. Anyway it's in a different category from older religions like Catholicism, etc. Not mostly due to how recent it is (Mormonism is also relatively recent) but around the facts of how it was formed. It's not an 'open' religion and its ex-members have been murdered by the Church for speaking out against it. That's why it's banned in Germany."

I think that's a totally neutral way I could describe it to my friend. If the first paragraph or two doesn't basically give this impression then it is not very objective, in my opinion. I give the current lead paragraph about a D on the grading scale. It could be worse: but it could also be much, much better.

obviously the church is in an edit war with anyone who wants to reflect a neutral point of view: in my estimation the church must be winning and sane normal editors who want the Encyclopedia to reflect a neutral point of war are losing the battle over the lead of this article: they're just not committed enough, and the Church's POV is winning. I'm not surprised, since the Church has an incentive and lots of money, whereas it seems that neutral editors don't really care about this article or aren't committed to making it good. oh well.

Even if L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology to make money, that in itself does not prove that Scientology is not a religion any more than the Vatican taking in lots of money every year would prove that Catholocism is not a religion. If Scientologists believe in it as a religion, we have no right to tell them otherwise. I would like to point out that the introduction to the article seems to allude to the notion that there may have been something to do with money with the initial founding of the Church of Scientology, and I am certainly not denying that there may be some scary stuff happening with the group (I've heard some stories, but have no evidence either way). If you really want to see a biased article on religion, try looking up Pastafarianism - I seriously doubt that Wikipedia could be convinced to host a completely unbiased article on the religion I choose to follow (I do take it seriously as a religion!). (talk) 00:06, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Rejection of psychology and psychiatry section[edit]

Grayfell, how is it NPOV to remove the statement: "It has also exposed abuses in the psychiatric profession," when upon checking the source, I can clearly see it being supported? Nonchalant77 (talk) 20:09, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

It's far, far too vague. "Exposed" and "abuses" are both overly broad and emotionally loaded when used without context. This could mean anything from clerical errors to torture, and leaving that up to the reader's assumptions to figure out which is absolutely not neutral. Grayfell (talk) 20:41, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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